cimbali m30 bistro service manual

[Andreas Siegert]

Hi,
I just got a WMF Espresso on E-bay which should be a relabeled
Cimbali M30 Bistro.
http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3808521277

Now I am looking for a service manual / parts list.

If anyone out there would have the information,
it would make me quite happy ;-}

From what I read here (mostly from Ken), I should probably invest
in more current baskets and a new SS steam tip, right?

I will probably also have to find a PF pressure gauge and find the
right valve to get the pump down to 9bar (Thanks again Jim and Ken!).


thx
afx (anxiously awaiting Friday when I get to fetch the new toy)

[Ken Fox]

Post by Andreas Siegert
Hi,
I just got a WMF Espresso on E-bay which should be a relabeled
Cimbali M30 Bistro.
http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3808521277
Now I am looking for a service manual / parts list.
If anyone out there would have the information,
it would make me quite happy ;-}
From what I read here (mostly from Ken), I should probably invest
in more current baskets and a new SS steam tip, right?
I will probably also have to find a PF pressure gauge and find the
right valve to get the pump down to 9bar (Thanks again Jim and Ken!).
thx
afx (anxiously awaiting Friday when I get to fetch the new toy)

Hi Andreas,

Looks like you got a good deal! Of course, not knowing the condition, it is
hard to be certain! This is a good example of the fact that when the seller
does not know what he is selling, and when the seller takes a lousy picture
of the item, he will get a poor price for the item listed.

I cannot tell whether this machine is a pourover or if it is plumbed in. At
one point Cimbali did make some pourover "M" series machines, but I don't
know which type this is. Also, at some point for the plumbed in "M" series
models, they switched over to rotary pumps. I'm almost certain the M31 has
a rotary pump but I don't know about the M30. If the machine has a rotary
pump, you won't have the sort of overpressure valve that I have in my vibe
pump machine. Also, if the machine is plumbed in, the overpressure valve,
apparently, is tied in with the water supply and I have no idea how it
works.

I have seen Rick Knowlan's M27, and the case is much larger than my Junior.
Also, the layout of internal components (many of which are the same or
similar) is very different. This means that even if your machine is a
pourover, the overpressure valve might be differently located. If this
valve is not already hooked up (it might be), and if you have a pourover,
you will need some NSF food safe silicone tubing to hook up the valve back
to the water tank. The internal diameter of the silicone tubing needed is
the same as the tubing that would connect the intake on the vibe pump to the
in tank softener in the water tank, e.g. 1/4" flexible stuff, in English
measurements. I'd convert to metric but my experience in doing this before
was that it produced the wrong number and I bought the wrong stuff (you
almost have to eyeball it, not measure it).

I can send you a picture of my overpressure valve; just send me an email at
***@hotmail.com

Best,

ken
p.s. the manuals that come with these machines are not very good; I would
not spend too much time trying to find one. You will be better off finding
a nice repair person or cafe owner, with a similar machine, and asking that
person to give you a quick demonstration of the features and operation.

[Ken Fox]

addendum:

Cimbali OEM baskets from about 8 years ago held about 12-14 g in the double
baskets, about 1/2 that for the singles. The new OEM baskets hold about 17g
for the doubles, and are perfectly good. I don't know when Cimbali switched
over to the larger basket sizes. If your baskets are the old style ones,
definitely replace them. There are knockoff baskets I have which are just
as good as the OEM Cimbali ones.

The picture of the ebay item shows one of the two awful chrome plated steam
tips that shipped with my old Jr. I never got anything out of that tip
except milk sprayed all over the kitchen. The other tip was better (did not
mess up the kitchen) but still terrible at foaming milk. There are at least
3 variables I know of (I own an example of each!) of the stainless steel
tips. One of them (~5.5cm length) is about twice as long as the other 2
(both about 2.8cm length). Functionally they are all similar, and have a
center hole surrounded by 3 additional holes. All use the same threads so
they are interchangeable, however how they will look when screwed in is a
function of the design of your steam arm, which could be either chrome
plated (older, most likely what you have) or stainless. Replacing the steam
arm is hugely expensive so don't do that unless the old one is broken in
some way (not the washer on the ball joint, which can leak but is cheap to
replace)

HTH.

ken

Post by Ken Fox

Post by Andreas Siegert
Hi,
I just got a WMF Espresso on E-bay which should be a relabeled
Cimbali M30 Bistro.
http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3808521277
Now I am looking for a service manual / parts list.
If anyone out there would have the information,
it would make me quite happy ;-}
From what I read here (mostly from Ken), I should probably invest
in more current baskets and a new SS steam tip, right?
I will probably also have to find a PF pressure gauge and find the
right valve to get the pump down to 9bar (Thanks again Jim and Ken!).
thx
afx (anxiously awaiting Friday when I get to fetch the new toy)

Hi Andreas,
Looks like you got a good deal! Of course, not knowing the condition, it is
hard to be certain! This is a good example of the fact that when the seller
does not know what he is selling, and when the seller takes a lousy picture
of the item, he will get a poor price for the item listed.
I cannot tell whether this machine is a pourover or if it is plumbed in.

At

Post by Ken Fox
one point Cimbali did make some pourover "M" series machines, but I don't
know which type this is. Also, at some point for the plumbed in "M" series
models, they switched over to rotary pumps. I'm almost certain the M31 has
a rotary pump but I don't know about the M30. If the machine has a rotary
pump, you won't have the sort of overpressure valve that I have in my vibe
pump machine. Also, if the machine is plumbed in, the overpressure valve,
apparently, is tied in with the water supply and I have no idea how it
works.
I have seen Rick Knowlan's M27, and the case is much larger than my Junior.
Also, the layout of internal components (many of which are the same or
similar) is very different. This means that even if your machine is a
pourover, the overpressure valve might be differently located. If this
valve is not already hooked up (it might be), and if you have a pourover,
you will need some NSF food safe silicone tubing to hook up the valve back
to the water tank. The internal diameter of the silicone tubing needed is
the same as the tubing that would connect the intake on the vibe pump to the
in tank softener in the water tank, e.g. 1/4" flexible stuff, in English
measurements. I'd convert to metric but my experience in doing this before
was that it produced the wrong number and I bought the wrong stuff (you
almost have to eyeball it, not measure it).
I can send you a picture of my overpressure valve; just send me an email at
Best,
ken
p.s. the manuals that come with these machines are not very good; I would
not spend too much time trying to find one. You will be better off finding
a nice repair person or cafe owner, with a similar machine, and asking that
person to give you a quick demonstration of the features and operation.

[Andreas Siegert]

Post by Ken Fox
Cimbali OEM baskets from about 8 years ago held about 12-14 g in the double
baskets, about 1/2 that for the singles. The new OEM baskets hold about 17g
for the doubles, and are perfectly good. I don't know when Cimbali switched
over to the larger basket sizes. If your baskets are the old style ones,
definitely replace them. There are knockoff baskets I have which are just
as good as the OEM Cimbali ones.

Is there a similar difference for the singles?

I am using LM baskets in my Oscar at the moment as the allow me to switch without
adjusting the grind.
I am hoping that the Cimabali baskets will be atuned to each other as well.
Otherwise I just keep the LM ones.

Post by Ken Fox
The picture of the ebay item shows one of the two awful chrome plated steam
tips that shipped with my old Jr. I never got anything out of that tip
except milk sprayed all over the kitchen. The other tip was better (did not
mess up the kitchen) but still terrible at foaming milk. There are at least
3 variables I know of (I own an example of each!) of the stainless steel
tips. One of them (~5.5cm length) is about twice as long as the other 2
(both about 2.8cm length). Functionally they are all similar, and have a
center hole surrounded by 3 additional holes. All use the same threads so
they are interchangeable, however how they will look when screwed in is a

What I am looking for is the steam tip that Aaron praised on coffeegeek,
four or five holes on in the center of the flat bottom, the others at the
edge of the bottom.

I'll need a new one anyway as I am not to fond of straight brass.

cheers
afx

[Ken Fox]

Post by Andreas Siegert

Post by Ken Fox
Cimbali OEM baskets from about 8 years ago held about 12-14 g in the double
baskets, about 1/2 that for the singles. The new OEM baskets hold about 17g
for the doubles, and are perfectly good. I don't know when Cimbali switched
over to the larger basket sizes. If your baskets are the old style ones,
definitely replace them. There are knockoff baskets I have which are just
as good as the OEM Cimbali ones.

Is there a similar difference for the singles?

the newer single baskets are larger than the old ones and they are shaped a
bit differently.

Post by Andreas Siegert
I am using LM baskets in my Oscar at the moment as the allow me to switch without
adjusting the grind.
I am hoping that the Cimabali baskets will be atuned to each other as well.
Otherwise I just keep the LM ones.

I think so but I don't know for sure. It is so rare for me to pull a single
shot (and then only for other people on request, not for myself) that almost
always when I do that I just pitch half the output of a double. So it has
been quite while since I even tried the single basket.

Post by Andreas Siegert

Post by Ken Fox
The picture of the ebay item shows one of the two awful chrome plated steam
tips that shipped with my old Jr. I never got anything out of that tip
except milk sprayed all over the kitchen. The other tip was better (did not
mess up the kitchen) but still terrible at foaming milk. There are at least
3 variables I know of (I own an example of each!) of the stainless steel
tips. One of them (~5.5cm length) is about twice as long as the other 2
(both about 2.8cm length). Functionally they are all similar, and have a
center hole surrounded by 3 additional holes. All use the same threads so
they are interchangeable, however how they will look when screwed in is a

What I am looking for is the steam tip that Aaron praised on coffeegeek,
four or five holes on in the center of the flat bottom, the others at the
edge of the bottom.

All three of the newer SS steam tips I have, have very similar hole
patterns, with one hole in the middle and 3 around it, at the edge of the
bottom of the tip and the sides. There may be others and I've not got any
experience with them so I can't comment.

Have a look at a new Cimbali machine and see what kind of tip they are
shipping with -- most probably it will be what I've described. A Cimbali
dealer should be able to supply you with a new tip. I have not seen any
knockoff tips like the OEM ones, although they may possibly exist.

good luck,

ken

[Andreas Siegert]

Post by Ken Fox

Post by Andreas Siegert
I just got a WMF Espresso on E-bay which should be a relabeled
Cimbali M30 Bistro.
http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3808521277

Looks like you got a good deal! Of course, not knowing the condition, it is
hard to be certain! This is a good example of the fact that when the seller
does not know what he is selling, and when the seller takes a lousy picture
of the item, he will get a poor price for the item listed.

The record for the WMF Espresso on Ebay in Germany is 868 Euros.
The guy who sold it had offered it to me beforehand for 650.- and
his photos where just great. They made me slobber over my keyboard.

I don't know why this guy put in a buy now for 300, it would have gone beyond
500 easily without that.
There is another one running with reasonably good pictures for 517.- at the moment.

I figure for 300, even if something major is broken,
I still can get it fixed for a reasonable total.

Post by Ken Fox
I cannot tell whether this machine is a pour over or if it is plumbed in. At

It is a plumbed in M30 Bistro from all I know about this type of Machine.
Vibe Pump.

Post by Ken Fox
one point Cimbali did make some pourover "M" series machines, but I don't
know which type this is. Also, at some point for the plumbed in "M" series
models, they switched over to rotary pumps. I'm almost certain the M31 has
a rotary pump but I don't know about the M30. If the machine has a rotary

Well, the M21, the current Junior is available in pourover/vibe as well as
plumbed/rotary and the M32, the current Bistro is a pourover+plumbed with
vibe in the single group version.
At least according to what Al and others wrote here and on Kaffeeboard.

Post by Ken Fox
pump, you won't have the sort of overpressure valve that I have in my vibe
pump machine. Also, if the machine is plumbed in, the overpressure valve,
apparently, is tied in with the water supply and I have no idea how it
works.

That's why I am hoping some kind soul here will have schematics,
not just the standard Cimbali spare parts list.

Post by Ken Fox
similar) is very different. This means that even if your machine is a
pourover, the overpressure valve might be differently located. If this

Definitely not pourover, I have seen internal pictures from this type of
machine form other sellers. The pump is hidden somewhere below where I could
not identify it in the pics.

Post by Ken Fox
valve is not already hooked up (it might be), and if you have a pourover,
you will need some NSF food safe silicone tubing to hook up the valve back
to the water tank. The internal diameter of the silicone tubing needed is
the same as the tubing that would connect the intake on the vibe pump to the
in tank softener in the water tank, e.g. 1/4" flexible stuff, in English
measurements. I'd convert to metric but my experience in doing this before
was that it produced the wrong number and I bought the wrong stuff (you
almost have to eyeball it, not measure it).

Should be easy once I find the valve.

Post by Ken Fox
I can send you a picture of my overpressure valve; just send me an email at

Thanks! E-Mail is on the way.

Post by Ken Fox
p.s. the manuals that come with these machines are not very good; I would
not spend too much time trying to find one. You will be better off finding
a nice repair person or cafe owner, with a similar machine, and asking that
person to give you a quick demonstration of the features and operation.

I do have the manual (from another Kaffeeboard member ;-).
Definitely better than the NS Oscar manual.
But it is a user manual and not a service guide which is what I am looking for.

thanks
afx

[sprsso]

Post by Andreas Siegert
Well, the M21, the current Junior is available in pourover/vibe as well as
plumbed/rotary and the M32, the current Bistro is a pourover+plumbed with
vibe in the single group version.
At least according to what Al and others wrote here and on Kaffeeboard.

The new M32 Bistros are all rotary vane and are plumbed for either
pourover or plumbed, but not at the same time. The first ones were
both, which I liked, but the factory deemed the duality to be
redundant and changed it.

Post by Andreas Siegert
That's why I am hoping some kind soul here will have schematics,
not just the standard Cimbali spare parts list.

Assuming this is an M30 (it looks like one, but I never knew they
rebranded for WMF. As a matter of fact, my last conversation with the
branch manager here ended up with him telling me that Cimbalis were
pieces of shit, just before he hung up on me.).
I have the complete parts breakdown, and I will see if I have the
schematics.....al

[Andreas Siegert]

Post by sprsso

Post by Andreas Siegert
Well, the M21, the current Junior is available in pourover/vibe as well as
plumbed/rotary and the M32, the current Bistro is a pourover+plumbed with
vibe in the single group version.
At least according to what Al and others wrote here and on Kaffeeboard.

The new M32 Bistros are all rotary vane and are plumbed for either
pourover or plumbed, but not at the same time. The first ones were
both, which I liked, but the factory deemed the duality to be
redundant and changed it.

Ooops, than I must have misread something. I was under the impression
the single with the pourover feature was vibe.

Post by sprsso

Post by Andreas Siegert
not just the standard Cimbali spare parts list.

Assuming this is an M30 (it looks like one, but I never knew they
rebranded for WMF. As a matter of fact, my last conversation with the
branch manager here ended up with him telling me that Cimbalis were
pieces of shit, just before he hung up on me.).

Maybe they never sold it in the US. They stopped selling it here as they
only do superautomatics now.
I guess this branch manager has no clue about espresso ;-)

Post by sprsso
I have the complete parts breakdown, and I will see if I have the
schematics.....al

That would be awesome!

thx
afx

[r***@electricfiber.com]

Andreas,

Like yourself, I just bought a used La Cimbali M30 Bistro on ebay and
need the operators manual, the service manual and anything else that
would be useful to get this machine working. The machine was lightly
used in an office for 10 years. Not much maintenance was done on it. I
am planning to descale it, backflushing it and set the pump pressure
release valve (if possible). The unit is plumbed in and uses a vibe
pump. Any help getting the documents, directions on how to program the
auto dosing buttons or advice from someone that has gone through what I
will be facing would be greatly appreciated. You can email me at
***@electricfiber.com. Thanks.

Peter

Post by Andreas Siegert
Hi,
I just got a WMF Espresso on E-bay which should be a relabeled
Cimbali M30 Bistro.
http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3808521277
Now I am looking for a service manual / parts list.
If anyone out there would have the information,
it would make me quite happy ;-}
From what I read here (mostly from Ken), I should probably invest
in more current baskets and a new SS steam tip, right?
I will probably also have to find a PF pressure gauge and find the
right valve to get the pump down to 9bar (Thanks again Jim and Ken!).
thx
afx (anxiously awaiting Friday when I get to fetch the new toy)

[Ken Fox]

Sorry,

Andreas has moved on to a Synesso and a Swift.

ken
:-)

Post by Ken Fox
Andreas,
Like yourself, I just bought a used La Cimbali M30 Bistro on ebay and
need the operators manual, the service manual and anything else that
would be useful to get this machine working. The machine was lightly
used in an office for 10 years. Not much maintenance was done on it. I
am planning to descale it, backflushing it and set the pump pressure
release valve (if possible). The unit is plumbed in and uses a vibe
pump. Any help getting the documents, directions on how to program the
auto dosing buttons or advice from someone that has gone through what I
will be facing would be greatly appreciated. You can email me at
Peter

Post by Andreas Siegert
Hi,
I just got a WMF Espresso on E-bay which should be a relabeled
Cimbali M30 Bistro.
http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3808521277
Now I am looking for a service manual / parts list.
If anyone out there would have the information,
it would make me quite happy ;-}
From what I read here (mostly from Ken), I should probably invest
in more current baskets and a new SS steam tip, right?
I will probably also have to find a PF pressure gauge and find the
right valve to get the pump down to 9bar (Thanks again Jim and Ken!).
thx
afx (anxiously awaiting Friday when I get to fetch the new toy)

[Andreas Siegert]

Post by Ken Fox
Sorry,
Andreas has moved on to a Synesso and a Swift.

Although I would take the Synesso immediately, I'd rather have a dual
Mahlkoenig Single Doser for a grinder ;-)

cheers
afx