Discussion:
Perry Estate Kona (??) Costco
(too old to reply)
Bob & Holly Wilson
2008-03-16 23:55:58 UTC
Permalink
Hi,

I was taking a short cut that passed by the coffey racks at my local
Costco only to find:

Hawaiian Gold
100% Hawaiian Kona Coffe
Private Estate Reserve
Rare Limited Edition

The back of the box lists "Parry Estate Kona Gold Coffee Plantation, Top
of Donkey Mill Road, Kailua-Kona, Hawaii 96745.

It lists "Gold Coffee Company Corporate Offices, 1425 Port Lane South
Jupiter, Florida 33458.

http://www.goldcoffee.com

I comes in a fancy box with a gold-foil bag. Costco sells these 1.5
pound bags for about $25. I have no idea how good it is, yet.

I filled my super-automatic with home roasted, Smithfarms Kona, before
going out today. But I'll take it to work tomorrow and give a taste.

For me, this is a new product and quite a relief from seeing the usual,
crummy Kona blends seen in the past. If it turns out to be a quality
product, I'll be sending Costco a nice thank you letter.

No, I'll still be a Smithfarms, green kona customer. The shelf-life and
freshness is something beyond even their pre-roasted. After all, I
prefer a darker roast over lighter roasted beans. But still, it is nice
to have another source.

Anyone else try this already?

Bob Wilson
Huntsville, AL
Tex
2008-03-17 00:29:48 UTC
Permalink
Did your Costco also have 100% Jam. Blue Mtn (~$35 1-1.5 lb package (??))?
I've mentioned these here before and Cea wouldn't accept that it was 100%
Kona for that price. They do say they're the largest Kona farmers on the
Island, so maybe they've got an economy of scale advantage?

I've used Costco's Kona but not their Blue Mtn - I liked it, but I'd rather
have my own custom roasted Kona - straight from Cea's back yard to my back
porch to the vac pot. Yummy! Smith Farm=good stuff!

Enjoy!
Robert (Tex) Harmon

http://www.tinyurl.com/mb4uj - My coffee pages.
http://www.tinyurl.com/2n2n7u - Basic barista training
http://www.tinyurl.com/2j8jur - Gaggia User's Group
http://www.tinyurl.com/235dfr - BUG is Bunn User's Group (espresso)
Post by Bob & Holly Wilson
Hi,
I was taking a short cut that passed by the coffey racks at my local
Hawaiian Gold
100% Hawaiian Kona Coffe
Private Estate Reserve
Rare Limited Edition
The back of the box lists "Parry Estate Kona Gold Coffee Plantation, Top
of Donkey Mill Road, Kailua-Kona, Hawaii 96745.
It lists "Gold Coffee Company Corporate Offices, 1425 Port Lane South
Jupiter, Florida 33458.
http://www.goldcoffee.com
I comes in a fancy box with a gold-foil bag. Costco sells these 1.5
pound bags for about $25. I have no idea how good it is, yet.
I filled my super-automatic with home roasted, Smithfarms Kona, before
going out today. But I'll take it to work tomorrow and give a taste.
For me, this is a new product and quite a relief from seeing the usual,
crummy Kona blends seen in the past. If it turns out to be a quality
product, I'll be sending Costco a nice thank you letter.
No, I'll still be a Smithfarms, green kona customer. The shelf-life and
freshness is something beyond even their pre-roasted. After all, I
prefer a darker roast over lighter roasted beans. But still, it is nice
to have another source.
Anyone else try this already?
Bob Wilson
Huntsville, AL
Bob & Holly Wilson
2008-03-17 05:00:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tex
Did your Costco also have 100% Jam. Blue Mtn (~$35 1-1.5 lb package (??))?
The Kona caught my eye.
Post by Tex
I've mentioned these here before and Cea wouldn't accept that it was 100%
Kona for that price. They do say they're the largest Kona farmers on the
Island, so maybe they've got an economy of scale advantage?
I'll know tomorrow if the quality is there.
Post by Tex
I've used Costco's Kona but not their Blue Mtn - I liked it, but I'd rather
have my own custom roasted Kona - straight from Cea's back yard to my back
porch to the vac pot. Yummy! Smith Farm=good stuff!
I agree, SmithFarms is the gold standard.

Bob Wilson
Bob & Holly Wilson
2008-03-18 03:33:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob & Holly Wilson
Post by Tex
I've mentioned these here before and Cea wouldn't accept that it was 100%
Kona for that price. They do say they're the largest Kona farmers on the
Island, so maybe they've got an economy of scale advantage?
I'll know tomorrow if the quality is there.
It was OK. It is roasted to the edge of oil but not dark. Not a whole
lot of foam. Also, the bag has a use by "January 2009." Gosh, that sure
is a long time for a roasted bean!

Cea, you still have a loyal customer. This stuff is a little 'too old'
for me and I didn't taste what I remember. It has a hint of Sumatrian.

If you wish, I'll send you some of this stuff. I'm not sure it makes
sense to spend more time on it.

Bob Wilson
Dan Warren
2008-05-14 04:00:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tex
Did your Costco also have 100% Jam. Blue Mtn (~$35 1-1.5 lb package
(??))? I've mentioned these here before and Cea wouldn't accept that
it was 100% Kona for that price. They do say they're the largest Kona
farmers on the Island, so maybe they've got an economy of scale
advantage?
BJ's also carries these beans. I use them thru the winter when it's to
cold to roast outdoors. It's decent coffee.
Jack Denver
2008-03-17 15:13:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob & Holly Wilson
Hi,
I was taking a short cut that passed by the coffey racks at my local
Hawaiian Gold
100% Hawaiian Kona Coffe
Private Estate Reserve
Rare Limited Edition
The back of the box lists "Parry Estate Kona Gold Coffee Plantation, Top
of Donkey Mill Road, Kailua-Kona, Hawaii 96745.
It lists "Gold Coffee Company Corporate Offices, 1425 Port Lane South
Jupiter, Florida 33458.
http://www.goldcoffee.com
I comes in a fancy box with a gold-foil bag. Costco sells these 1.5
pound bags for about $25. I have no idea how good it is, yet.
One thing that made me very suspicious is that the bags do not appear to be
valve bags, so the coffee would have to be full degassed (read "pre-staled")
before packaging. Gold seems to have its own unique business model, built on
a larger scale/higher volume than most Kona farmers and more vertically
integrated, so their cost structure appears to allow them to sell for less.
They are unambiguously claiming that their stuff is 100% Kona and after all
the Kona Kai stuff they would have to be very bold indeed to attempt a
criminal fraud on this scale by giving you something else. So I am inclined
to believe the origin claim. Whether they cut corners in other ways I
dunno - just because the coffee is Kona doesn't automatically make it good
Kona.
Robert Harmon
2008-03-17 17:20:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack Denver
Post by Bob & Holly Wilson
Hi,
I was taking a short cut that passed by the coffey racks at my local
Hawaiian Gold
100% Hawaiian Kona Coffe
Private Estate Reserve
Rare Limited Edition
The back of the box lists "Parry Estate Kona Gold Coffee Plantation, Top
of Donkey Mill Road, Kailua-Kona, Hawaii 96745.
It lists "Gold Coffee Company Corporate Offices, 1425 Port Lane South
Jupiter, Florida 33458.
http://www.goldcoffee.com
I comes in a fancy box with a gold-foil bag. Costco sells these 1.5
pound bags for about $25. I have no idea how good it is, yet.
One thing that made me very suspicious is that the bags do not appear to be
valve bags, so the coffee would have to be full degassed (read "pre-staled")
before packaging. Gold seems to have its own unique business model, built on
a larger scale/higher volume than most Kona farmers and more vertically
integrated, so their cost structure appears to allow them to sell for less.
They are unambiguously claiming that their stuff is 100% Kona and after all
the Kona Kai stuff they would have to be very bold indeed to attempt a
criminal fraud on this scale by giving you something else. So I am inclined
to believe the origin claim. Whether they cut corners in other ways I
dunno - just because the coffee is Kona doesn't automatically make it good
Kona.
I was suspicious too Jack - but Costco has a reputation of selling the
best-of-the-best and it's VERY difficult to get onto the floor of
Costco with as second-rate product. I've used the Kona they sell for
groups and it tasted damned good, but I did use it all at one event in
pour-over Bunn commercial brewers. What the shelf life would be once
opened is anyone's guess since the roast date isn't given. But the
bags of Kona I looked at DID have valved bags - curious that they're
using different bags. :/

Robert (Tex) Harmon

http://www.tinyurl.com/mb4uj - My coffee pages.
http://www.tinyurl.com/2n2n7u - Basic barista training
http://www.tinyurl.com/2j8jur - Gaggia User's Group
http://www.tinyurl.com/235dfr - BUG is Bunn User's Group (espresso)
John S.
2008-03-17 16:39:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob & Holly Wilson
Hi,
I was taking a short cut that passed by the coffey racks at my local
Hawaiian Gold
100% Hawaiian Kona Coffe
Private Estate Reserve
Rare Limited Edition
The back of the box lists "Parry Estate Kona Gold Coffee Plantation, Top
of Donkey Mill Road, Kailua-Kona, Hawaii 96745.
It lists "Gold Coffee Company Corporate Offices, 1425 Port Lane South
Jupiter, Florida 33458.
http://www.goldcoffee.com
I comes in a fancy box with a gold-foil bag. Costco sells these 1.5
pound bags for about $25. I have no idea how good it is, yet.
I filled my super-automatic with home roasted, Smithfarms Kona, before
going out today. But I'll take it to work tomorrow and give a taste.
For me, this is a new product and quite a relief from seeing the usual,
crummy Kona blends seen in the past. If it turns out to be a quality
product, I'll be sending Costco a nice thank you letter.
No, I'll still be a Smithfarms, green kona customer. The shelf-life and
freshness is something beyond even their pre-roasted. After all, I
prefer a darker roast over lighter roasted beans. But still, it is nice
to have another source.
Anyone else try this already?
Bob Wilson
Huntsville, AL
Is Parry Estate a part of Parry Agro?
b***@smithfarms.com
2008-03-17 20:05:45 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 18:55:58 -0500, ***@hotmail.com (Bob &
Holly Wilson) wrote:

Bob------

There are NO FEDERAL regulations about using the word "Kona". None.
We have the fabulous Kona Blend:( law, only in the State of Hawaii.

Okay my super sleuthing- for that extraordinary price, taken all the
way to FL---over 5,000 miles from here, indicates this to me;

1) "Hawaiian Kona" can mean anything. <Hawaiian> is the XXX - lowest
grade of Kona and can not be called Kona because it is the lowest
grade. So to sell in this state, it would have to be called Hawaiian.

2) The label, oh tricky people, does not say 100% Kona. That is the
trademark all other Kona people strive for. It says 100% *Hawaiian*
Kona.

3) And, to ship more than 10 pounds of Kona out of Hawaii, it has to
*certified* as to the Kona name as a result of the Kona Kai scandal of
1996. The State DOA certifies your Kona for a price, and then it can
go anywhere.

3) Bob says there is not enough xxx Kona to sell at the volume of
COSTCO.

I do not have the time to sort it all through but this is why, that
particular Kona doesn't click with me.

Thanks for asking.

with aloha,
Cea
Post by Bob & Holly Wilson
Hi,
I was taking a short cut that passed by the coffey racks at my local
Hawaiian Gold
100% Hawaiian Kona Coffe
Private Estate Reserve
Rare Limited Edition
The back of the box lists "Parry Estate Kona Gold Coffee Plantation, Top
of Donkey Mill Road, Kailua-Kona, Hawaii 96745.
It lists "Gold Coffee Company Corporate Offices, 1425 Port Lane South
Jupiter, Florida 33458.
http://www.goldcoffee.com
I comes in a fancy box with a gold-foil bag. Costco sells these 1.5
pound bags for about $25. I have no idea how good it is, yet.
I filled my super-automatic with home roasted, Smithfarms Kona, before
going out today. But I'll take it to work tomorrow and give a taste.
For me, this is a new product and quite a relief from seeing the usual,
crummy Kona blends seen in the past. If it turns out to be a quality
product, I'll be sending Costco a nice thank you letter.
No, I'll still be a Smithfarms, green kona customer. The shelf-life and
freshness is something beyond even their pre-roasted. After all, I
prefer a darker roast over lighter roasted beans. But still, it is nice
to have another source.
Anyone else try this already?
Bob Wilson
Huntsville, AL
roast beans to kona to email
farmers of Pure Kona
b***@smithfarms.com
2008-03-17 20:20:42 UTC
Permalink
PS:)

Mountain Thunder sells in our COSTCO, one pound of 100% Kona for
$18.95. ( I know through sources that he wants to raise his price, but
he is somehow locked in right now.)

How can that Parry Estate sell it for less, after it has traveled from
here to there? Doubt it.

There is no Kona farm that has 791 acres of coffee. Period.

It has to be something else. And again, there are no Federal
Regulations and we can't afford to have it investigated.

I need to get to work:)

aloha,
Cea
Post by b***@smithfarms.com
Post by Bob & Holly Wilson
Hi,
I was taking a short cut that passed by the coffey racks at my local
Hawaiian Gold
100% Hawaiian Kona Coffe
Private Estate Reserve
Rare Limited Edition
The back of the box lists "Parry Estate Kona Gold Coffee Plantation, Top
of Donkey Mill Road, Kailua-Kona, Hawaii 96745.
It lists "Gold Coffee Company Corporate Offices, 1425 Port Lane South
Jupiter, Florida 33458.
http://www.goldcoffee.com
I comes in a fancy box with a gold-foil bag. Costco sells these 1.5
pound bags for about $25. I have no idea how good it is, yet.
I filled my super-automatic with home roasted, Smithfarms Kona, before
going out today. But I'll take it to work tomorrow and give a taste.
For me, this is a new product and quite a relief from seeing the usual,
crummy Kona blends seen in the past. If it turns out to be a quality
product, I'll be sending Costco a nice thank you letter.
No, I'll still be a Smithfarms, green kona customer. The shelf-life and
freshness is something beyond even their pre-roasted. After all, I
prefer a darker roast over lighter roasted beans. But still, it is nice
to have another source.
Anyone else try this already?
Bob Wilson
Huntsville, AL
roast beans to kona to email
farmers of Pure Kona
roast beans to kona to email
farmers of Pure Kona
Robert Harmon
2008-03-17 20:36:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@smithfarms.com
PS:)
Mountain Thunder sells in our COSTCO, one pound of 100% Kona for
$18.95. ( I know through sources that he wants to raise his price, but
he is somehow locked in right now.)
How can that Parry Estate sell it for less, after it has traveled from
here to there? Doubt it.
There is no Kona farm that has 791 acres of coffee. Period.
It has to be something else. And again, there are no Federal
Regulations and we can't afford to have it investigated.
I need to get to work:)
aloha,
Cea
Post by b***@smithfarms.com
Post by Bob & Holly Wilson
Hi,
I was taking a short cut that passed by the coffey racks at my local
Hawaiian Gold
100% Hawaiian Kona Coffe
Private Estate Reserve
Rare Limited Edition
The back of the box lists "Parry Estate Kona Gold Coffee Plantation, Top
of Donkey Mill Road, Kailua-Kona, Hawaii 96745.
It lists "Gold Coffee Company Corporate Offices, 1425 Port Lane South
Jupiter, Florida 33458.
http://www.goldcoffee.com
I comes in a fancy box with a gold-foil bag. Costco sells these 1.5
pound bags for about $25. I have no idea how good it is, yet.
I filled my super-automatic with home roasted, Smithfarms Kona, before
going out today. But I'll take it to work tomorrow and give a taste.
For me, this is a new product and quite a relief from seeing the usual,
crummy Kona blends seen in the past. If it turns out to be a quality
product, I'll be sending Costco a nice thank you letter.
No, I'll still be a Smithfarms, green kona customer. The shelf-life and
freshness is something beyond even their pre-roasted. After all, I
prefer a darker roast over lighter roasted beans. But still, it is nice
to have another source.
Anyone else try this already?
Bob Wilson
Huntsville, AL
roast beans to kona to email
farmers of Pure Kona
roast beans to kona to email
farmers of Pure Kona
I know nothing about Kona in general (other than I like your coffee)
and less about the spats over the trade name that's going on over
there; but I do know Costco - very well. They're the most ethical
company I've ever had professional contact with.

If you truly believe (as opposed to being over-protective) the product
they're selling is being sold under false or misleading labeling,
PLEASE contact them ASAP, http://www.tinyurl.com/3ex4z8, and they will
take action. Of course, if you're just blowing smoke, please don't
bother them - they're very busy dealing with non-trivial complaints.

Tex
b***@smithfarms.com
2008-03-17 21:03:28 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 13:36:01 -0700 (PDT), Robert Harmon
Post by Robert Harmon
I know nothing about Kona in general (other than I like your coffee)
and less about the spats over the trade name that's going on over
there; but I do know Costco - very well. They're the most ethical
company I've ever had professional contact with.
If you truly believe (as opposed to being over-protective) the product
they're selling is being sold under false or misleading labeling,
PLEASE contact them ASAP, http://www.tinyurl.com/3ex4z8, and they will
take action. Of course, if you're just blowing smoke, please don't
bother them - they're very busy dealing with non-trivial complaints.
Tex
I am not blowing smoke:) but there are no restrictions, on the
mainland, abut selling anything with the Kona name. None. You can
sell kona coffee gum if you want.

I too believe in COSTCO.

Why bother them?

Have a good day.

aloha,
Cea
roast beans to kona to email
farmers of Pure Kona
Jack Denver
2008-03-17 22:26:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@smithfarms.com
PS:)
Mountain Thunder sells in our COSTCO, one pound of 100% Kona for
$18.95. ( I know through sources that he wants to raise his price, but
he is somehow locked in right now.)
How can that Parry Estate sell it for less, after it has traveled from
here to there? Doubt it.
They are selling theirs for $16.67/lb. which is only 12% less. Seems doable
to me, given that (1) they are not making an claims as to grade (2) they are
large scale farmers and vertically integrated. It's not like they are
selling Kona for $3/lb or something that would cast automatic and total
suspicion on their claims.
Post by b***@smithfarms.com
There is no Kona farm that has 791 acres of coffee. Period.
This is a true statement but AFAIK, Gold Coffee is not claiming that they
do - please show me where they make this claim? According to this article,
they have acquired a long term lease from the Kamehameha Schools of that
much acreage but about 300 acres are a nature preserve and will not be
cultivated. Of the remainder, the plan is to ramp up to 500 acres of
production over a number of years as demand justifies - I don't know how
many acres are in production now - this story is from 2001.

http://www.bizjournals.com/pacific/stories/2001/04/23/story4.html

I don't think it is in their interest to dump a huge amount of coffee on the
market and depress prices so I'm sure they will only add production in
relation to what they expect to sell and have contracts for with warehouse
clubs, etc. It seems to me that if they can broaden the knowledge and
awareness of the Kona brand this will ultimately benefit other Kona
producers as well. I can understand that they will naturally be viewed with
suspicion but at this point that's all you have - suspicion and no really
proof that anything dirty is going on. Shouldn't someone at least get in
their pickup and go see what's going on up there? Maybe they have 500 acreas
in coffee already, maybe there is not a tree in sight - shouldn't be too
hard to tell either way.
shane
2008-03-18 13:31:10 UTC
Permalink
producers as well.  I can understand that they will naturally be viewed with
suspicion but at this point that's all you have - suspicion and no really
proof that anything dirty is going on.  Shouldn't someone at least get in
their pickup and go see what's going on up there? Maybe they have 500 acreas
in coffee already, maybe there is not a tree in sight - shouldn't be too
hard to tell either way.
Just curious, can one see much with Google's satellite images? How
current does Google keep their satellite images? It does not look as
if the ones of Hawaii are at a very detailed resolution. Oh well.

Shane
Johnbo
2008-03-18 22:04:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by shane
Just curious, can one see much with Google's satellite images? How
current does Google keep their satellite images? It does not look as
if the ones of Hawaii are at a very detailed resolution. Oh well.
Shane
Shane, Try thid one:

http://www.flashearth.com/
shane
2008-03-19 13:26:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Johnbo
Just curious, can one see much with Google's satellite images?   How
current does Google keep their satellite images?   It does not look as
if the ones of Hawaii are at a very detailed resolution.   Oh well.
Shane
http://www.flashearth.com/
That is a cool site, I like the option to pick different photos.

Shane
S***@gmail.com
2008-05-09 18:58:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack Denver
Post by b***@smithfarms.com
PS:)
Mountain Thunder sells in our COSTCO, one pound of 100% Kona for
$18.95. ( I know through sources that he wants to raise his price, but
he is somehow locked in right now.)
How can thatParryEstatesell it for less, after it has traveled from
here to there? Doubt it.
They are selling theirs for $16.67/lb. which is only 12% less. Seems doable
to me, given that (1) they are not making an claims as to grade (2) they are
large scale farmers and vertically integrated. It's not like they are
selling Kona for $3/lb or something that would cast automatic and total
suspicion on their claims.
Post by b***@smithfarms.com
There is no Kona farm that has 791 acres of coffee.  Period.
This is a true statement but AFAIK, Gold Coffee is not claiming that  they
do - please show me where they make this claim?  According to this article,
they have acquired a long term lease from the Kamehameha Schools of that
much acreage but about 300 acres are a nature preserve and will not be
cultivated. Of the remainder, the plan is to ramp up to 500 acres of
production  over a number of years as demand justifies - I don't know how
many acres are in production now - this story is from 2001.
http://www.bizjournals.com/pacific/stories/2001/04/23/story4.html
I don't think it is in their interest to dump a huge amount of coffee on the
market and depress prices so I'm sure they will only add production in
relation to what they expect to sell and have contracts for with warehouse
clubs, etc.  It seems to me that if they can broaden the knowledge and
awareness of the Kona brand this will ultimately benefit other Kona
producers as well.  I can understand that they will naturally be viewed with
suspicion but at this point that's all you have - suspicion and no really
proof that anything dirty is going on.  Shouldn't someone at least get in
their pickup and go see what's going on up there? Maybe they have 500 acreas
in coffee already, maybe there is not a tree in sight - shouldn't be too
hard to tell either way.
As illustrated in the linked article, Gold Coffee is looking to become
a major producer of Kona coffee. They seem to have built their
presence in Kauai through a partnership with three well-connected
partners who have put together two companies in Kona: The Parry
Estate, and PLK Air Services Group LLC.

The three partners are Frederick Parr, Robert Lindsey and Albert Kam.
Albert Kam, the companys' Chair, is a former chief financial officer
of the Mauna Loa Macadamia Nut Corporation and former CEO of Superior
Coffee Company. Robert Lindsey, Vice President-Hawaii Operations of
the Parry Estate and a Partner in PLK Air Services Group LLC is the
former Director of Land Assets Division, Endowment Group, Kamehameha
Schools. Parr, probably the least well-known of the three locally,
has "worked in the capital markets," according to Kam.

Clearly, Lindsey's influence was used to acquire the lease on the
Kamehameha Schools land, though the deal could have been consummated
while he was still holding the position with the Schools (I have no
way of knowing.) Kam has run a coffee company previously, so he was
brought in to head the venture, and Parr was brought in to secure the
financing.

After acquiring the rights to farm the Schools acrage, they set about
finding a suitable spot for a large processing and shipping facility
to handle large-scale output. The partners used their political
influence, probably combined with a liberal greasing of lobbying
dollars, to get a 20 year lease on land at the Kona airport and got
the state legislature (House Bill 1556) to grant PLK the right to
issue $25 million in state-backed tax-exempt bonds to fund the
construction of a large processing facility for coffee and macadamia
nuts. This was a pretty controversial step, because all of the
existing Kona farmers and processors were nervous about the effect of
a large rival moving into the market, but it passed in 2005.

So now, things seem to be on track for Gold Coffee and their
acquisition of a major presence in the Kona coffee producing market.
I have no idea what effect they are having, or will have on the
existing producers, but for better or worse, it looks like they're
there to stay (at least for the next 20 years.)

I am somewhat surprised that Cea Smith doesn't know anything about
this, as it seems that this seems to have been fairly heavily covered
in the local media, with protests and meetings of many farmers and
producers and many comments by local politicians. She is even named
in one of the articles I read on the subject (http://
www.hicoffeeco.com/KonaCoffeeWarshiftstoanewbattlefront/tabid/235/Default.aspx)

The principals at PLK have all sworn up and down in very public
pronouncements that they will not produce blended coffees, that they
will only make 100% Kona coffee. If Kona Gold is putting out some
Kona blends, as has been alledged, it is a bit disturbing because that
runs counter to the fact that "Kam and Lindsey signed pledges to
include a clause in their airport lease stating that they would only
sell 100 percent Kona Coffee and Hawaiian-grown macadamia nuts, and
that PLK would help lobby for federal protection of the 100 percent
Kona Coffee name." (from an article at http://hawaiiislandjournal.com/2005/10b05a.html)

I have no reason to doubt the wording on the box that claims that the
coffee is 100% Hawaiian Kona coffee. I haven't opened the box and
tasted it yet. That may give me reason to doubt. But from all
available evidence, it seems that this is being put out by a company
that has (ethically or not) made a concerted effort to build a large
coffee growing and production operation that would be able to take
advantage of efficiencies of scale and produce a product at a lower
cost and in a higher volume that would appeal to a large buyer like
Costco.

As in everything, it comes down to this: if you like it, buy it! If
you don't, don't!
b***@smithfarms.com
2008-05-10 04:10:51 UTC
Permalink
PS:)
this is a news article from 2006:)
roast beans to kona to email
farmers of Pure Kona
Bob & Holly Wilson
2008-05-10 07:40:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by S***@gmail.com
...
The principals at PLK have all sworn up and down in very public
pronouncements that they will not produce blended coffees, that they
will only make 100% Kona coffee. If Kona Gold is putting out some
Kona blends, as has been alledged, it is a bit disturbing because that
runs counter to the fact that "Kam and Lindsey signed pledges to
include a clause in their airport lease stating that they would only
sell 100 percent Kona Coffee ...
We can speculate why one coffee doesn't match another. The beans could
have come from stressed trees; harvesting might have kept what should
have been culled beans; processing might have left undesirable flavors.
Once roasted and sold, all a customer can do is taste and vote with our
repeat business.

I've bought green kona from my local roaster as well as Smithfarms. In
both cases, the beans were better the other available coffees but
roasted Gold isn't in that group. Green 'Gold' might help understand
what is going on.

I've not tried Gold versus other coffees. It may well be better than
many other coffees but someone else will have to run that test.

Bob Wilson
lavarock7
2008-03-18 20:03:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@smithfarms.com
PS:)
Mountain Thunder sells in our COSTCO, one pound of 100% Kona for
$18.95. ( I know through sources that he wants to raise his price, but
he is somehow locked in right now.)
How can that Parry Estate sell it for less, after it has traveled from
here to there? Doubt it.
There is no Kona farm that has 791 acres of coffee. Period.
It has to be something else. And again, there are no Federal
Regulations and we can't afford to have it investigated.
I need to get to work:)
aloha,
Cea
I used to search Ebay often for Kona Coffee. I began to see Kona Gold
(From parry Farm) show up at very cheap prices, usually sold by people
living in Jupiter Florida, or a candy company).

The Ebay ads called it Kona Coffee and grown on the Mountain here.
However, I knew they were selling a blend. I called them on it and they
would tell me that the online photo clearly showed that it was a blend.
The photo was small and even with my photo enlargement techniques I was
unable to see any indication of a blend.

I complained to Ebay that these sellers were using fraud and unfair
practices. I directed Ebay to the Kona Farm Bureau, Kona Coffee Farmers
Association, CTAHR [Univ of HI] or to the Kona Coffee Council; any of
which could verify the authenticity of the product. We all knew it was a
blend based upon packaging.

Within weeks the ads changed to a better but not great description. I
feel that my complaint made a difference in Ebay listings for Kona blends.

I spoke with my Real Estate Agent (a Kona coffee farmer) and the
Extension Agent. It was my understanding that Parry may OWN a boat-load
[my term] of land here, there is a large portion in protected areas that
in unusable for coffee production. If I had time, I'd go to Google Earth
and start counting acres...

Here is a current Ebay ad by some seller (probably not Parry) Note that
it says the product Comes from Parry Estate but then does accurately
call it a blend. Blend means some of the coffee comes from elsewhere :-)

DESCRIPTION

You are bidding on 7.5lbs of Xtra Fancy Kona roasted whole bean coffee
blend. This gourmet coffee blend is a product the GOLD Coffee Company,
packaged in three 21/2 lbs bags and sealed for freshness. This limited
imported coffee is grown on the Parry Estate, the largest coffee
plantation in Kona, Hawaii Each package bears the Parry Estate symbol
of Authenticity and Quality. Bid with confidence, all who try this rare
product for the first time are simply delighted with its taste and now
they are unable to do without it.

Shipping is only $9.75 (includes shipping and delivery confirmation)
to any destination in continental USA.

THE FARM

Overlooking the vast blue-green Pacific Ocean, in the rich volcanic
soils at the Gold Coffee Plantation, the growers nurture each third
generation coffee tree. Grown on Mauna Loa's mountain slopes, bathed in
the crystalline water, cooled by the warm Pacific trade winds. This is
nature's perfect cradle for these superior coffee trees to flourish.
These sun-ripened coffee cherries are hand picked, expertly graded and
roasted in small batches to insure the highest possible standard of
quality. This seductive mixture of love and care produces a coffee
possessing a vibrant taste with a striking exotic character. World
renown as a varietal favourite.

Grown using Environmentally friendly methods

Centuries ago on sun-drenched volcanic mountain slopes King Kamchanecha
cultivated his personal fields on land that is today known as Parry
Estate, a Kona Coffee Plantation. Company archaeologists are carefully
protecting the great king's legacy and historical sites thoughout the
estate.Exotic wildlife and lush rain forest vegetation flourish in a
carefully planned natural habitats. The growers have set aside hundreds
of acres to conserved the ecological and historical heritage of this
extraordinary paradise. Be assured that everyone involved in the coffee
plantation is passionately committed to the principles of preserving the
fertile soil and crystalline waters for future generations through
sustainable agriculture practices.
b***@smithfarms.com
2008-03-18 20:31:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by lavarock7
I used to search Ebay often for Kona Coffee. I began to see Kona Gold
(From parry Farm) show up at very cheap prices, usually sold by people
living in Jupiter Florida, or a candy company).
The Ebay ads called it Kona Coffee and grown on the Mountain here.
However, I knew they were selling a blend. I called them on it and they
would tell me that the online photo clearly showed that it was a blend.
The photo was small and even with my photo enlargement techniques I was
unable to see any indication of a blend.
I complained to Ebay that these sellers were using fraud and unfair
practices. I directed Ebay to the Kona Farm Bureau, Kona Coffee Farmers
Association, CTAHR [Univ of HI] or to the Kona Coffee Council; any of
which could verify the authenticity of the product. We all knew it was a
blend based upon packaging.
Within weeks the ads changed to a better but not great description. I
feel that my complaint made a difference in Ebay listings for Kona blends.
I spoke with my Real Estate Agent (a Kona coffee farmer) and the
Extension Agent. It was my understanding that Parry may OWN a boat-load
[my term] of land here, there is a large portion in protected areas that
in unusable for coffee production. If I had time, I'd go to Google Earth
and start counting acres...
Here is a current Ebay ad by some seller (probably not Parry) Note that
it says the product Comes from Parry Estate but then does accurately
call it a blend. Blend means some of the coffee comes from elsewhere :-)
DESCRIPTION
You are bidding on 7.5lbs of Xtra Fancy Kona roasted whole bean coffee
blend. This gourmet coffee blend is a product the GOLD Coffee Company,
packaged in three 21/2 lbs bags and sealed for freshness. This limited
imported coffee is grown on the Parry Estate, the largest coffee
plantation in Kona, Hawaii Each package bears the Parry Estate symbol
of Authenticity and Quality. Bid with confidence, all who try this rare
product for the first time are simply delighted with its taste and now
they are unable to do without it.
Shipping is only $9.75 (includes shipping and delivery confirmation)
to any destination in continental USA.
THE FARM
Overlooking the vast blue-green Pacific Ocean, in the rich volcanic
soils at the Gold Coffee Plantation, the growers nurture each third
generation coffee tree. Grown on Mauna Loa's mountain slopes, bathed in
the crystalline water, cooled by the warm Pacific trade winds. This is
nature's perfect cradle for these superior coffee trees to flourish.
These sun-ripened coffee cherries are hand picked, expertly graded and
roasted in small batches to insure the highest possible standard of
quality. This seductive mixture of love and care produces a coffee
possessing a vibrant taste with a striking exotic character. World
renown as a varietal favourite.
Grown using Environmentally friendly methods
Centuries ago on sun-drenched volcanic mountain slopes King Kamchanecha
cultivated his personal fields on land that is today known as Parry
Estate, a Kona Coffee Plantation. Company archaeologists are carefully
protecting the great king's legacy and historical sites thoughout the
estate.Exotic wildlife and lush rain forest vegetation flourish in a
carefully planned natural habitats. The growers have set aside hundreds
of acres to conserved the ecological and historical heritage of this
extraordinary paradise. Be assured that everyone involved in the coffee
plantation is passionately committed to the principles of preserving the
fertile soil and crystalline waters for future generations through
sustainable agriculture practices.
Thanks Mark!

aloha,
Cea
roast beans to kona to email
farmers of Pure Kona
Robert Harmon
2008-03-18 20:30:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by lavarock7
I used to search Ebay often for Kona Coffee. I began to see Kona Gold
(From parry Farm) show up at very cheap prices, usually sold by people
living in Jupiter Florida, or a candy company).
The Ebay ads called it Kona Coffee and grown on the Mountain here.
However, I knew they were selling a blend. I called them on it and they
would tell me that the online photo clearly showed that it was a blend.
The photo was small and even with my photo enlargement techniques I was
unable to see any indication of a blend.
I complained to Ebay that these sellers were using fraud and unfair
practices. I directed Ebay to the Kona Farm Bureau, Kona Coffee Farmers
Association, CTAHR [Univ of HI] or to the Kona Coffee Council; any of
which could verify the authenticity of the product. We all knew it was a
blend based upon packaging.
Within weeks the ads changed to a better but not great description. I
feel that my complaint made a difference in Ebay listings for Kona blends.
I spoke with my Real Estate Agent (a Kona coffee farmer) and the
Extension Agent. It was my understanding that Parry may OWN a boat-load
[my term] of land here, there is a large portion in protected areas that
in unusable for coffee production. If I had time, I'd go to Google Earth
and start counting acres...
Here is a current Ebay ad by some seller (probably not Parry) Note that
it says the product Comes from Parry Estate but then does accurately
call it a blend. Blend means some of the coffee comes from elsewhere :-)
I'm not sure what your point is - are you saying Parry Coffee (Gold)
is engaging in fraudulent packaging, advertising, or both? And I'm
curious & confused (not unusual) - are Perry Estates & Parry Estates
one & the same Kona farm?

BTW - good on you for bringing these problems to eBay's attention! You
made a difference and if someone could provide Costco with such
specific examples, I know they'd take action. Some would rather
complain than take a stand, I suppose.

Robert (If my ox was being gored I'd be screaming to Costco!) Harmon
lavarock7
2008-03-18 23:07:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Harmon
Post by lavarock7
I used to search Ebay often for Kona Coffee. I began to see Kona Gold
(From parry Farm) show up at very cheap prices, usually sold by people
living in Jupiter Florida, or a candy company).
The Ebay ads called it Kona Coffee and grown on the Mountain here.
However, I knew they were selling a blend. I called them on it and they
would tell me that the online photo clearly showed that it was a blend.
The photo was small and even with my photo enlargement techniques I was
unable to see any indication of a blend.
I complained to Ebay that these sellers were using fraud and unfair
practices. I directed Ebay to the Kona Farm Bureau, Kona Coffee Farmers
Association, CTAHR [Univ of HI] or to the Kona Coffee Council; any of
which could verify the authenticity of the product. We all knew it was a
blend based upon packaging.
Within weeks the ads changed to a better but not great description. I
feel that my complaint made a difference in Ebay listings for Kona blends.
I spoke with my Real Estate Agent (a Kona coffee farmer) and the
Extension Agent. It was my understanding that Parry may OWN a boat-load
[my term] of land here, there is a large portion in protected areas that
in unusable for coffee production. If I had time, I'd go to Google Earth
and start counting acres...
Here is a current Ebay ad by some seller (probably not Parry) Note that
it says the product Comes from Parry Estate but then does accurately
call it a blend. Blend means some of the coffee comes from elsewhere :-)
I'm not sure what your point is - are you saying Parry Coffee (Gold)
is engaging in fraudulent packaging, advertising, or both? And I'm
curious & confused (not unusual) - are Perry Estates & Parry Estates
one & the same Kona farm?
BTW - good on you for bringing these problems to eBay's attention! You
made a difference and if someone could provide Costco with such
specific examples, I know they'd take action. Some would rather
complain than take a stand, I suppose.
Robert (If my ox was being gored I'd be screaming to Costco!) Harmon
What I meant to say (and probably didn't spend enough time doing) was
that at least two or three companies have often sold Kona Gold Coffee.
One guy was from Jupiter Florida (the home of the company). Another was
a candy company in New York. A third I can't remember where they are
from. All of the ads said the same types of things about the coffee.

To my knowledge, none of the ads I saw on Ebay were from Kona Gold
itsself. Only that he people on Ebay, either intentionally or
mistakenly, made it very difficult or impossible to tell that what they
were selling was a blend. They all (and still do) intimate the the
coffee all comes from this farm. They now appear to say it is a blend,
and I believe that is because I made an Ebay complaint.

I believe the farm name is indeed PARRY not Perry and that they do sell
both 100% and blends.
Jack Denver
2008-03-19 00:01:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Harmon
Post by lavarock7
I used to search Ebay often for Kona Coffee. I began to see Kona Gold
(From parry Farm) show up at very cheap prices, usually sold by people
living in Jupiter Florida, or a candy company).
The Ebay ads called it Kona Coffee and grown on the Mountain here.
However, I knew they were selling a blend. I called them on it and they
would tell me that the online photo clearly showed that it was a blend.
The photo was small and even with my photo enlargement techniques I was
unable to see any indication of a blend.
I complained to Ebay that these sellers were using fraud and unfair
practices. I directed Ebay to the Kona Farm Bureau, Kona Coffee Farmers
Association, CTAHR [Univ of HI] or to the Kona Coffee Council; any of
which could verify the authenticity of the product. We all knew it was a
blend based upon packaging.
Within weeks the ads changed to a better but not great description. I
feel that my complaint made a difference in Ebay listings for Kona blends.
I spoke with my Real Estate Agent (a Kona coffee farmer) and the
Extension Agent. It was my understanding that Parry may OWN a boat-load
[my term] of land here, there is a large portion in protected areas that
in unusable for coffee production. If I had time, I'd go to Google Earth
and start counting acres...
Here is a current Ebay ad by some seller (probably not Parry) Note that
it says the product Comes from Parry Estate but then does accurately
call it a blend. Blend means some of the coffee comes from elsewhere :-)
I'm not sure what your point is - are you saying Parry Coffee (Gold)
is engaging in fraudulent packaging, advertising, or both? And I'm
curious & confused (not unusual) - are Perry Estates & Parry Estates
one & the same Kona farm?
Perry is a typo - the name is Parry.

Jupiter, FL is where their roasting plant is, I assume to get them out from
Hawaiian state regulation among other things. Here is their website:

http://www.goldcoffee.com/hawaiian_gold




"Kona Gold Coffee Plantation is the largest coffee plantation in Kona,
encompassing 791 rain-blessed acres. IN FULL PRODUCTION Kona Gold will
supply over 40% of the Kona's annual coffee crop. Cultivated on the highest
slopes in the Kona region 2,000 feet above sea level...."

"We have set aside [three] hundreds of acres to conserve the ecological and
historical heritage of this extraordinary paradise."

Note the language that I have emphasized. The photos on the size show a
backyard sized patch of unshaded coffee planted in rows on a gentle slope:

Loading Image...

The bags on ebay are labeled "Gourmet Blend" which could mean anything.
konapage
2008-03-19 02:30:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack Denver
Post by Robert Harmon
Post by lavarock7
I used to search Ebay often for Kona Coffee. I began to see Kona Gold
(From parry Farm) show up at very cheap prices, usually sold by people
living in Jupiter Florida, or a candy company).
The Ebay ads called it Kona Coffee and grown on the Mountain here.
However, I knew they were selling a blend. I called them on it and they
would tell me that the online photo clearly showed that it was a blend.
The photo was small and even with my photo enlargement techniques I was
unable to see any indication of a blend.
I complained to Ebay that these sellers were using fraud and unfair
practices. I directed Ebay to the Kona Farm Bureau, Kona Coffee Farmers
Association, CTAHR [Univ of HI] or to the Kona Coffee Council; any of
which could verify the authenticity of the product. We all knew it was a
blend based upon packaging.
Within weeks the ads changed to a better but not great description. I
feel that my complaint made a difference in Ebay listings for Kona blends.
I spoke with my Real Estate Agent (a Kona coffee farmer) and the
Extension Agent. It was my understanding that Parry may OWN a boat-load
[my term] of land here, there is a large portion in protected areas that
in unusable for coffee production. If I had time, I'd go to Google Earth
and start counting acres...
Here is a current Ebay ad by some seller (probably not Parry) Note that
it says the product Comes from Parry Estate but then does accurately
call it a blend. Blend means some of the coffee comes from elsewhere :-)
I'm not sure what your point is - are you saying Parry Coffee (Gold)
is engaging in fraudulent packaging, advertising, or both? And I'm
curious & confused (not unusual) - are Perry Estates & Parry Estates
one & the same Kona farm?
Perry is a typo - the name is Parry.
Jupiter, FL is where their roasting plant is, I assume to get them out from
http://www.goldcoffee.com/hawaiian_gold
"Kona Gold Coffee Plantation is the largest coffee plantation in Kona,
encompassing 791 rain-blessed acres. IN FULL PRODUCTION Kona Gold will
supply over 40% of the Kona's annual coffee crop. Cultivated on the highest
slopes in the Kona region 2,000 feet above sea level...."
"We have set aside [three] hundreds of acres to conserve the ecological and
historical heritage of this extraordinary paradise."
Note the language that I have emphasized. The photos on the size show a
http://k.b5z.net/i/u/6049585/i/Plantation_20k.jpg
The bags on ebay are labeled "Gourmet Blend" which could mean anything.
No way in *(^% they can supply 40% of the entire crop! So this appears
to be cr*p!
Jack Denver
2008-03-19 03:43:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by konapage
No way in *(^% they can supply 40% of the entire crop! So this appears
to be cr*p!
Again you have to read the whole thing - it says that IF and WHEN FULLY
PLANTED, they could supply 40% of the crop off their 500 acre farm (800
total less 300 nature preserve) - I don't know the total acreage of Kona
coffee outside the Parry estate but I assume that they do and didn't just
pull 40% out of the air. Of course I doubt they will ever be able to plant
all 500 acres, but IF they did, it might well constitute 40% of the total
crop.
konapage
2008-03-19 17:28:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack Denver
Post by konapage
No way in *(^% they can supply 40% of the entire crop! So this appears
to be cr*p!
Again you have to read the whole thing - it says that IF and WHEN FULLY
PLANTED, they could supply 40% of the crop off their 500 acre farm (800
total less 300 nature preserve) - I don't know the total acreage of Kona
coffee outside the Parry estate but I assume that they do and didn't just
pull 40% out of the air. Of course I doubt they will ever be able to plant
all 500 acres, but IF they did, it might well constitute 40% of the total
crop.
Last September according to the Dept. of Ag there was over 3250 acres
of land growing Kona coffee. You do the math Mr. Denver. I can and did
read that is why I commented.
Jack Denver
2008-03-19 18:19:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by konapage
Last September according to the Dept. of Ag there was over 3250 acres
of land growing Kona coffee. You do the math Mr. Denver. I can and did
read that is why I commented.
Thanks for the stats. You should have given us the data in the first
place - arguments are much more persuasive if they are supported by facts.
Could there be differences in yield per acre? I can't believe that they
just pulled this number out of the air - their number surely has "spin" on
it (like when they mention their "800" acre farm without mentioning that
almost 40% of it is nature preserve and will never be farmed) but that's not
the same as just making stuff up.
konapage
2008-03-19 22:36:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack Denver
Post by konapage
Last September according to the Dept. of Ag there was over 3250 acres
of land growing Kona coffee. You do the math Mr. Denver. I can and did
read that is why I commented.
Thanks for the stats. You should have given us the data in the first
place - arguments are much more persuasive if they are supported by facts.
Could there be differences in yield per acre? I can't believe that they
just pulled this number out of the air - their number surely has "spin" on
it (like when they mention their "800" acre farm without mentioning that
almost 40% of it is nature preserve and will never be farmed) but that's not
the same as just making stuff up.
The average yield from coffee trees is 10-20 pounds of cherry per
years. New trees obviously being less. We have trees that are 50 to
100 plus years old on our farm and new trees as well. So if this is a
newly planted farm there is no way to obtain that yield.

I believe I saw their quote that they had 40% of a 2 million pound
crop, silly, because the crop was more like 6 million pounds!
b***@smithfarms.com
2008-03-21 20:10:59 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 19 Mar 2008 15:36:35 -0700 (PDT), konapage
Post by konapage
The average yield from coffee trees is 10-20 pounds of cherry per
years. New trees obviously being less. We have trees that are 50 to
100 plus years old on our farm and new trees as well. So if this is a
newly planted farm there is no way to obtain that yield.
I believe I saw their quote that they had 40% of a 2 million pound
crop, silly, because the crop was more like 6 million pounds!
If you look at the statistics here
http://www.nass.usda.gov/hi/speccrop/coffee.htm you will see that
Green Production from their 2006 stats....

Hawaii State coffee production is estimated at 6.4 million pounds

Kona produced 2.6 million pounds

Just a detail.

aloha,
Cea
roast beans to kona to email
farmers of Pure Kona
Nick Cramer
2008-03-18 03:18:16 UTC
Permalink
[ . . . ]
Hi Cea. Good ta see ya back. Were you guys out pickin' beans in the back
forty or down in Honolulu fightin' the good fight?

Did you get my email?
--
Nick. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their families!
I've known US vets who served as far back as the Spanish American War. They
are all my heroes! Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not
forgotten. Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~
6***@gmail.com
2008-03-18 21:20:07 UTC
Permalink
Hi folks,

Anyone interested in a 'blind study?"

On Mar 16, 6:55 pm, ***@hotmail.com (Bob & Holly Wilson)
wrote:
. . .
Post by Bob & Holly Wilson
I was taking a short cut that passed by the coffey racks at my local
Hawaiian Gold
100% Hawaiian Kona Coffe
Private Estate Reserve
Rare Limited Edition
The back of the box lists "Parry Estate Kona Gold Coffee Plantation, Top
of Donkey Mill Road, Kailua-Kona, Hawaii 96745.
. . .
Post by Bob & Holly Wilson
No, I'll still be a Smithfarms, green kona customer. . . .
Anyone else try this already?
. . .

I have the "Parry Estate Kona(?)" and home roasted Smithfarms. What
I'd like to suggest is if we can get say 5 to 7 volunteers nominated
and supported by the alt.coffee community, I would be happy to send
samples of the two coffees randomly marked "A" and "B" to the tasters.
The only condition is they each publicly report on the sample
including preparation and tasting here. After all 5 to 7 tasters
report their results, I'll publish the key. For good measure, I'll
send a copy of the key to Cea as I send out the samples.

Comments? Suggestions?

Bob Roast - Smithfarms Kona
To avoid biasing the results, I won't describe it. Your description of
the two samples should be enough. No, I won't be roasting to make them
look alike, I'm roasting the Smithfarms to my taste.

"Parry Estate Knoa(?)"
Right out of the bag, an equivalent volume of beans.

Nominations are accepted via e-mail or other means, I will need a
postal address and your "handle." Self and other nominations are open
from now to Thursday sunset, Huntsville AL time. At that time, I will
post the nominations and if we have five or fewer, we're done. If we
have more than seven, I will post the "handles", City and State and
we'll have a quick vote. I'll send out the samples this weekend using
First Class USA postage.

Fair enough??

NOTE: I won't be sending out any green Smithfarms Kona because this
and the Parry Estate need to be from known batches of known history.
How do you know if I do a good job roasting? Uh, I don't care since I
like it my way.

Bob Wilson

ps. What do I get? Assurance that I'm not the only one who can taste
the difference. Also, if any of the taste panel have some interesting
beans, green or otherwise to share, I would be quite pleased.
Reciprocity is not expected or a requirement, just some evidence of
alt.coffee participation and interest in the art.
Bob & Holly Wilson
2008-03-19 10:02:16 UTC
Permalink
Hi Folks,

My appologies about the typo on "Parry Estate."

I forgot when posting this that I was using my separate business
Post by 6***@gmail.com
Anyone interested in a 'blind study?"
I am serious about this. Send your nomination and once we have five to
seven tasters, I'll be happy to send out the samples.
Post by 6***@gmail.com
. . .
Post by Bob & Holly Wilson
I was taking a short cut that passed by the coffey racks at my local
Hawaiian Gold
100% Hawaiian Kona Coffe
Private Estate Reserve
Rare Limited Edition
The back of the box lists "Parry Estate Kona Gold Coffee Plantation, Top
of Donkey Mill Road, Kailua-Kona, Hawaii 96745.
. . .
Post by Bob & Holly Wilson
No, I'll still be a Smithfarms, green kona customer. . . .
Anyone else try this already?
. . .
I have the "Parry Estate Kona(?)" and home roasted Smithfarms. What
I'd like to suggest is if we can get say 5 to 7 volunteers nominated
and supported by the alt.coffee community, I would be happy to send
samples of the two coffees randomly marked "A" and "B" to the tasters.
The only condition is they each publicly report on the sample
including preparation and tasting here. After all 5 to 7 tasters
report their results, I'll publish the key. For good measure, I'll
send a copy of the key to Cea as I send out the samples.
Comments? Suggestions?
Bob Roast - Smithfarms Kona
To avoid biasing the results, I won't describe it. Your description of
the two samples should be enough. No, I won't be roasting to make them
look alike, I'm roasting the Smithfarms to my taste.
"Parry Estate Knoa(?)"
Right out of the bag, an equivalent volume of beans.
Nominations are accepted via e-mail or other means, I will need a
postal address and your "handle." Self and other nominations are open
from now to Thursday sunset, Huntsville AL time. At that time, I will
post the nominations and if we have five or fewer, we're done. If we
have more than seven, I will post the "handles", City and State and
we'll have a quick vote. I'll send out the samples this weekend using
First Class USA postage.
Fair enough??
NOTE: I won't be sending out any green Smithfarms Kona because this
and the Parry Estate need to be from known batches of known history.
How do you know if I do a good job roasting? Uh, I don't care since I
like it my way.
Bob Wilson
ps. What do I get? Assurance that I'm not the only one who can taste
the difference. Also, if any of the taste panel have some interesting
beans, green or otherwise to share, I would be quite pleased.
Reciprocity is not expected or a requirement, just some evidence of
alt.coffee participation and interest in the art.
I just wanted to let you' all know I'm the same Bob Wilson and this is
my regular posting account.

Bob Wilson
Nick Cramer
2008-03-19 10:36:24 UTC
Permalink
***@hotmail.com (Bob & Holly Wilson) wrote:
[]
Post by Bob & Holly Wilson
Post by 6***@gmail.com
Anyone interested in a 'blind study?"
I am serious about this. Send your nomination and once we have five to
seven tasters, I'll be happy to send out the samples.
[ . . . ]

Hi, Bob. I'd really like to participate, but my equipment and I are so
antiquated that my results would probably be meaningless. I'm looking
forward to the results of your study. Great idea. I only hope that no
plants skew the results.
--
Nick. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their families!
I've known US vets who served as far back as the Spanish American War. They
are all my heroes! Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not
forgotten. Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~
E***@spamblock.panix.com
2008-03-19 14:35:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob & Holly Wilson
I am serious about this. Send your nomination and once we have five to
seven tasters, I'll be happy to send out the samples.
I'd really love to participate. I'll send an email from my real account.
--
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so
certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.
-- Bertrand Russel
MOJO
2008-03-21 14:16:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob & Holly Wilson
snip
No, I'll still be a Smithfarms, green kona customer. The shelf-life and
freshness is something beyond even their pre-roasted. After all, I
prefer a darker roast over lighter roasted beans. But still, it is nice
to have another source.
Anyone else try this already?
Bob Wilson
Huntsville, AL
I am still a novice at coffee. I have bought green from Cea but I am
not a self-proclaimed master roaster. I have done some tastings but
not at this level.

As a point of interest, my brother-in-law is doing the Magnum PI thing
(grounds keeper not security) on Maui. He has typically been several
steps behind me in his escalation of tastes such as beer, barbeque,
etc. and now coffee. Just to let you know, he was drinking Folgers
until last year and that's OK with me. Now though he has been exposed
to life with Kona and was originally very shocked at the price of
coffee even over there. Needing to fit in drives his evolution an
several fronts including getting comfy with Longboard Ale, Hawaiian
Tuna (AHI) and Kona. Yet he has made statements to me about how high
priced the coffee is and now he really doesn't care for "straight
Kona"?????
He came home recently and gave me samples of what he has been drinking
and I just wanted to share them with you.
Firstly and more importantly I wanted to describe the "straight Kona"
which he referred to. It is Lion brand.
I did not ask how much it cost but it is only 7oz., whole bean. The
front of th bag is plastered with Hawaii or its derivative four times.
It also mentions 100% Kona and Kona 24-Karat. Now I have to worry
about 18 Karat showing up somewhere! It claims to be Light Medium
Roast with a "Silky Smooth Finish." On the back of the bag, the URL
is listed and some additional information is provided. I am honored to
be tasting this coffee because upon my arrival to the website I see
that Lions claim to fame, "As the world's largest buyer and roaster of
Kona coffee beans, we know Kona Coffee!" OK. I opened the bag. It
doesn't appear light roasted, but that could be subjective, there is
oil showing but it smells interesting. Like maybe some chocolates. It
really doesn't jump up as great coffee and since your asking it is
mediocre at best. Please consider the novice source here. There is no
legible date code on the bag although there are some numbers beneath
the UPC code which may relate so something.

Ok now I am anxious to taste the coffee which my brother-in-law likes
so much. Again, Kona in his opinion was too strong. Maybe he was
putting too much in per cup who knows?

His preferred coffee is advertised as 4-Island blend and he says it is
less expensive. This comes from the coffee store at mauicoffee.com.
There are no claims to its contents. This sample came in a one lb.
bag. Upon opening, it again was showing oil and since you asked did
not look real fresh. No date code. Our (wife and father-in-law) rating
of the coffee - No big deal.

The next day I cooked some smoked brisket and served some 4 day old
Ethiopian Harrar with apple dumplings.
Comments: Wow is that coffee good!

I will be interested in seeing the results of the tasting if you are
successful in perusing it.

MOJO
(Roasters Mate Second Class)
(Might be First Class if I wasn't so sarcastic, maybe not)
Jack Denver
2008-03-21 14:57:19 UTC
Permalink
"
Post by MOJO
Firstly and more importantly I wanted to describe the "straight Kona"
which he referred to. It is Lion brand.
I did not ask how much it cost but it is only 7oz., whole bean.
This retails for around $15 for 7 oz., thus the price complaints.
Handcrafted, fresh coffee like Smith Farms is priceless but there's no way
that run of the mill, pre-roasted coffee of indefinite age can be worth
$35/lb just because it is "Kona".
Post by MOJO
Ok now I am anxious to taste the coffee which my brother-in-law likes
so much. Again, Kona in his opinion was too strong. Maybe he was
putting too much in per cup who knows?
No, "too strong" is the layman's all purpose verdict about coffee they don't
like. It doesn't mean anything more specific than "I don't like it". Often
it means "this coffee is the proper brew strength but I've been drinking
watery overextracted coffee for so long I don't know what proper coffee
tastes like".
v***@gmail.com
2008-03-21 15:45:45 UTC
Permalink
So, what are we talking about now? I have made a couple cups of the
Parry Kona coffee from Costco and I think it tastes great, but I'm no
coffee snob. Curious what others think about it. It's the first 100%
Kona I've ever tried though, and I don't believe for a second Costco
would put something out there that is misleading to its customers.
b***@smithfarms.com
2008-03-21 16:13:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by v***@gmail.com
So, what are we talking about now? I have made a couple cups of the
Parry Kona coffee from Costco and I think it tastes great, but I'm no
coffee snob. Curious what others think about it. It's the first 100%
Kona I've ever tried though, and I don't believe for a second Costco
would put something out there that is misleading to its customers.
I think we established that the COSTCO coffee was a Blended cofffee?
And if you like it, great!!

aloha,
Cea
roast beans to kona to email
farmers of Pure Kona
Robert Harmon
2008-03-21 16:24:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@smithfarms.com
Post by v***@gmail.com
So, what are we talking about now? I have made a couple cups of the
Parry Kona coffee from Costco and I think it tastes great, but I'm no
coffee snob. Curious what others think about it. It's the first 100%
Kona I've ever tried though, and I don't believe for a second Costco
would put something out there that is misleading to its customers.
I think we established that the COSTCO coffee was a Blended cofffee?
And if you like it, great!!
aloha,
Cea
roast beans to kona to email
farmers of Pure Kona
No Cea, *WE* haven't! The Kona I just picked up at Costco (Parry) says
100% Kona coffee. It's not blended with anything except other Kona
coffee beans. Why are you so insistent about making Costco out to be
the bad guys? Is it because they're undercutting your price by so
much?

Costco's pricing policy has always been to buy wholesale and mark up
by 5% - *maximum*. Maybe if the Kona farmers could get their act
together and form a true coop, they could buy up any under priced
beans and maintain a stable price? Take a look at Sunkist & Tree Sweet
coops - these guys know how to protect themselves; which is probably
where you guys need to be heading.

Tex (loves the coffee, can't understand the business practices) Harmon
Jack Denver
2008-03-21 18:11:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Harmon
Costco's pricing policy has always been to buy wholesale and mark up
by 5% - *maximum*.
I like Costco and am a member but I think you are exaggerating how little
they mark stuff up. I don't know where you got 5% from.

Their financial statements are online here:

http://media.corporate-ir.net/media_files/irol/83/83830/Annual_Report_2007.pdf

Their gross margin is around 10% of sales, which is admittedly low for a
retailer (Walmart, Target, etc. are more like 30%). This doesn't even cover
all their overhead. Basically all of their profit comes from the membership
fees. If you were to amortize the membership fees back into sales, their
gross margin would increase to about 12.5% of sales, still low, but not 5%.
Keep in mind that Costco is not some kind of non-profit - they are very much
in business for profit (albeit a smaller markup than most). I find that you
have to be very careful shopping there - many items are very attractively
priced (but they make you buy more than you might want). But other times
(for example many of the produce items) are not only priced higher than you
might pay elsewhere (mainly because of pre-packaging) but the freshness is
questionable - it's one thing to stack up pallets of canned goods, it's
another to deal with highly perishable fruits and vegetables. Also I assume
the 10% margin is not uniformly applied - I suspect some things get marked
up more, others less.
Tex
2008-03-21 20:51:52 UTC
Permalink
Brain fart! It's 14% max markup on any product.
--
Enjoy!
Robert (Tex) Harmon

http://www.tinyurl.com/mb4uj - My coffee pages.
http://www.tinyurl.com/24p7hu - PID kits for Gaggia espresso machines
http://www.tinyurl.com/2cr3e2 - I have things for sale here.
http://www.tinyurl.com/2n2n7u - Basic barista training
http://www.tinyurl.com/2j8jur - Gaggia User's Group
http://www.tinyurl.com/235dfr - BUG is Bunn User's Group (espresso)
Post by Jack Denver
Post by Robert Harmon
Costco's pricing policy has always been to buy wholesale and mark up
by 5% - *maximum*.
I like Costco and am a member but I think you are exaggerating how little
they mark stuff up. I don't know where you got 5% from.
http://media.corporate-ir.net/media_files/irol/83/83830/Annual_Report_2007.pdf
Their gross margin is around 10% of sales, which is admittedly low for a
retailer (Walmart, Target, etc. are more like 30%). This doesn't even
cover all their overhead. Basically all of their profit comes from the
membership fees. If you were to amortize the membership fees back into
sales, their gross margin would increase to about 12.5% of sales, still
low, but not 5%. Keep in mind that Costco is not some kind of non-profit -
they are very much in business for profit (albeit a smaller markup than
most). I find that you have to be very careful shopping there - many items
are very attractively priced (but they make you buy more than you might
want). But other times (for example many of the produce items) are not
only priced higher than you might pay elsewhere (mainly because of
pre-packaging) but the freshness is questionable - it's one thing to
stack up pallets of canned goods, it's another to deal with highly
perishable fruits and vegetables. Also I assume the 10% margin is not
uniformly applied - I suspect some things get marked up more, others less.
lockjaw
2008-03-22 07:29:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tex
Brain fart!
ANOTHER one!
b***@smithfarms.com
2008-03-21 23:12:08 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 09:24:36 -0700 (PDT), Robert Harmon
Post by Robert Harmon
Post by b***@smithfarms.com
Post by v***@gmail.com
So, what are we talking about now? I have made a couple cups of the
Parry Kona coffee from Costco and I think it tastes great, but I'm no
coffee snob. Curious what others think about it. It's the first 100%
Kona I've ever tried though, and I don't believe for a second Costco
would put something out there that is misleading to its customers.
I think we established that the COSTCO coffee was a Blended cofffee?
And if you like it, great!!
aloha,
Cea
roast beans to kona to email
farmers of Pure Kona
No Cea, *WE* haven't! The Kona I just picked up at Costco (Parry) says
100% Kona coffee. It's not blended with anything except other Kona
coffee beans. Why are you so insistent about making Costco out to be
the bad guys? Is it because they're undercutting your price by so
much?
Costco's pricing policy has always been to buy wholesale and mark up
by 5% - *maximum*. Maybe if the Kona farmers could get their act
together and form a true coop, they could buy up any under priced
beans and maintain a stable price? Take a look at Sunkist & Tree Sweet
coops - these guys know how to protect themselves; which is probably
where you guys need to be heading.
Tex (loves the coffee, can't understand the business practices) Harmon
Tex Again, I love COSTCO. I was going to buy some stock in them,
before it went flying high, why? because I believe in COSTCO and love
to shop there. Get it???????? I love COSTCO. I refer to it as Mecca:)

As to a coop- we are very small independent farmers who work our
farms. Maybe if some one like yourself came, had nothing to do
because you were so wealthy, you could design a program and then see
if we like it. But if you want a quote from a Texan like yourself
---" Trying to get all farmers to agree would be like pushing a wheel
barrow of frogs for a mile." Rather Impossible.

Sunkist? Gads, they are not like we very small farmers. I actually do
have a full time job working for my farm and for our non-profit Kona
Coffee farmers. "Puhleeeeeeeeze", as my grand daughter says.

Cea
roast beans to kona to email
farmers of Pure Kona
er
2008-03-22 05:31:31 UTC
Permalink
I've never seen the Perry Estate Kona at our local Costco in Seattle.

What we do have quite often is one pound bags labeled 100% Kona selling for
$19.95. There are no markings on the bag to identify who grew the coffee,
or if it was roasted fresh in the store. It's displayed at the roaster, so
I assumed that it came in green, and was roasted in the store.

DS
Jack Denver
2008-03-21 18:11:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@smithfarms.com
.
I think we established that the COSTCO coffee was a Blended cofffee?
And if you like it, great!!
Nope, I don't think so. The Gold Coffee Co. stuff that is being sold on ebay
for about $8/lb is labeled "Gourmet Blend" (whatever that means, but the
price would indicate that it's not likely 100% Kona). But the Costco stuff
(which costs about double, despite Costco's low margin model) is clearly
labeled as 100% Hawaiian Kona, so unless they are lying (or unless that's
some sort of trick wording - e.g. it's 100% Hawaiian, not 100% Kona) its
not a blend. But nothing is "established".
b***@smithfarms.com
2008-03-21 23:13:13 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 14:11:42 -0400, "Jack Denver"
Post by Jack Denver
Post by b***@smithfarms.com
.
I think we established that the COSTCO coffee was a Blended cofffee?
And if you like it, great!!
Nope, I don't think so. The Gold Coffee Co. stuff that is being sold on ebay
for about $8/lb is labeled "Gourmet Blend" (whatever that means, but the
price would indicate that it's not likely 100% Kona). But the Costco stuff
(which costs about double, despite Costco's low margin model) is clearly
labeled as 100% Hawaiian Kona, so unless they are lying (or unless that's
some sort of trick wording - e.g. it's 100% Hawaiian, not 100% Kona) its
not a blend. But nothing is "established".
sorry I was in a rush when I wrote that.

Cea
roast beans to kona to email
farmers of Pure Kona
b***@smithfarms.com
2008-03-21 22:53:20 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 10:57:19 -0400, "Jack Denver"
Post by Jack Denver
"
Post by MOJO
Firstly and more importantly I wanted to describe the "straight Kona"
which he referred to. It is Lion brand.
I did not ask how much it cost but it is only 7oz., whole bean.
This retails for around $15 for 7 oz., thus the price complaints.
Handcrafted, fresh coffee like Smith Farms is priceless but there's no way
that run of the mill, pre-roasted coffee of indefinite age can be worth
$35/lb just because it is "Kona".
Post by MOJO
Ok now I am anxious to taste the coffee which my brother-in-law likes
so much. Again, Kona in his opinion was too strong. Maybe he was
putting too much in per cup who knows?
No, "too strong" is the layman's all purpose verdict about coffee they don't
like. It doesn't mean anything more specific than "I don't like it". Often
it means "this coffee is the proper brew strength but I've been drinking
watery overextracted coffee for so long I don't know what proper coffee
tastes like".
Thanks Jack. I have always wondered why people can say "too strong"
abut a cup of coffee. Make the dilution weaker would work if it was
"too strong". Maybe you have it. People drink slightly coffee
flavored hot water so a real cup of coffee is too flavorful?

What a shame.

aloha,
Cea
roast beans to kona to email
farmers of Pure Kona
Jack Denver
2008-03-22 02:45:39 UTC
Permalink
What I do for the "too strong" crowd is to add hot water to a cup of coffee
brewed at proper strength - this is better than using too little coffee
which results in overextraction and I can drink the same coffee without the
extra water. For their home brewing, tell them to still only use a
tablespoon for a gallon or whatever it is that they have been using all
their lives, but to use less water in the machine and then top up the brewed
pot with the missing water to get back to their customary dilution. Even
that is asking a lot - habits are hard to break.
Post by b***@smithfarms.com
On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 10:57:19 -0400, "Jack Denver"
Post by Jack Denver
"
Post by MOJO
Firstly and more importantly I wanted to describe the "straight Kona"
which he referred to. It is Lion brand.
I did not ask how much it cost but it is only 7oz., whole bean.
This retails for around $15 for 7 oz., thus the price complaints.
Handcrafted, fresh coffee like Smith Farms is priceless but there's no way
that run of the mill, pre-roasted coffee of indefinite age can be worth
$35/lb just because it is "Kona".
Post by MOJO
Ok now I am anxious to taste the coffee which my brother-in-law likes
so much. Again, Kona in his opinion was too strong. Maybe he was
putting too much in per cup who knows?
No, "too strong" is the layman's all purpose verdict about coffee they don't
like. It doesn't mean anything more specific than "I don't like it".
Often
it means "this coffee is the proper brew strength but I've been drinking
watery overextracted coffee for so long I don't know what proper coffee
tastes like".
Thanks Jack. I have always wondered why people can say "too strong"
abut a cup of coffee. Make the dilution weaker would work if it was
"too strong". Maybe you have it. People drink slightly coffee
flavored hot water so a real cup of coffee is too flavorful?
What a shame.
aloha,
Cea
roast beans to kona to email
farmers of Pure Kona
MOJO
2008-03-22 04:54:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack Denver
snip
This retails for around $15 for 7 oz., thus the price complaints.
Handcrafted, fresh coffee like Smith Farms is priceless but there's no way
that run of the mill, pre-roasted coffee of indefinite age can be worth
$35/lb just because it is "Kona".
snip
No, "too strong" is the layman's all purpose verdict about coffee they don't
like.  It doesn't mean anything more specific than "I don't like it".  Often
it means "this coffee is the proper brew strength but I've been drinking
watery overextracted coffee for so long I don't know what proper coffee
tastes like".
Jack,
I thought about this for a little bit and it still makes no sense to
me. There really wasn't anything to "dislike" about it. Both were
fairly nondescript.

I am pretty sure that his brewing methods are askew but that aside I
think he would have a tendency to brew the coffee at the same strength
for both or maybe weaker due to the price differential on the Lion.
His brewing method might have brought something out in the coffee that
mine did not.

After seeing the oil on this Light Med Roast I was hoping to detect a
difference in maybe the staleness of the coffee which resulted in his
interpretation of strength. I couldn't and I took precautions when
evaluating to give a fair shake to both samples. The Lion was in a
valve bag and we sampled it immediately as was the other.

I only made coffee from the 4-island blend for two days and then the
Lion lb for two days. By then I was really itching to be back to my
roasted coffee.

Without offending anyone I think that both are over priced for what
they are. They should be dated to insure freshness which seems to me
to be the greater issue. Instead they plaster the bag with Hawaii
this, Kona that, 24 karat this, Aloha that. Advertising is getting to
me. It sure draws the gullible schlocks in though. Sorry. I am getting
more cynical by the minute.

If you like it I am truly happy that you do. We should all enjoy good
coffee. Whatever you think that is.
Marshall
2008-03-22 22:10:15 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 10:57:19 -0400, "Jack Denver"
Post by Jack Denver
No, "too strong" is the layman's all purpose verdict about coffee they don't
like. It doesn't mean anything more specific than "I don't like it". Often
it means "this coffee is the proper brew strength but I've been drinking
watery overextracted coffee for so long I don't know what proper coffee
tastes like".
So true. Reminds me of when we went to dinner once with my elderly
parents and their friends, and I was choosing the wine. One of the
women kept asking if the wines I was looking at were "strong" (which
was an obvious negative for her). I said, no, they were the usual 12%
or so. But, that wasn't what she meant. It took quite several
questions to understand that she meant "dry," which she didn't like.
So, it was California "Riesling" for her (and most of the table!) and
dry wine for us.

Marshall
Jack Denver
2008-03-23 05:03:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@smithfarms.com
On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 10:57:19 -0400, "Jack Denver"
So true. Reminds me of when we went to dinner once with my elderly
parents and their friends, and I was choosing the wine. One of the
women kept asking if the wines I was looking at were "strong" (which
was an obvious negative for her). I said, no, they were the usual 12%
or so. But, that wasn't what she meant. It took quite several
questions to understand that she meant "dry," which she didn't like.
So, it was California "Riesling" for her (and most of the table!) and
dry wine for us.
Marshall
Yes, "strong" doesn't just refer to coffee - it can also refer to wine,
cheese, etc.

No need for the scare quotes around Riesling - it's the name of a grape and
not a geographical region like Champagne so it can be grown anywhere, same
as Cabernet or Sauvignon Blanc or whatever.

You should try the Eroica Riesling from Ch. St. Michelle in Washington - a
bit pricey but you may be pleasantly surprised

http://www.ste-michelle.com/Eroica_Riesling.cfm

A properly done Riesling is still flowery/ fruity but also has mineral and
acid to balance so it doesn't taste like alcoholic Kool-Aid. Sunny
California is not ideal for a grape that originates from the Rhine. Try it
with spicy Asian food (Thai, Szechuan), where bone dry whites (and reds)
just get drowned out. There is a lot of bad American Riesling around so a
good one is a revelation.
Andy Schecter
2008-03-23 14:20:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack Denver
A properly done Riesling is still flowery/ fruity but also has mineral
and acid to balance so it doesn't taste like alcoholic Kool-Aid. Sunny
California is not ideal for a grape that originates from the Rhine.
Speaking of unsunny climates, here's a plug for one of New York State's best
wines (IMHO):

Hermann Wiemer Riesling.

http://www.wiemer.com/
--
-Andy S.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/andy_s/sets/
Jack Denver
2008-03-23 20:38:36 UTC
Permalink
The secret of Riesling seems to be to have a German winemaker - the Germans
have long familiarity with this grape and know how to treat it.

The problem w/ a lot of NY wines is not so much the climate (though the
noble grapes don't always make it thru the fierce upstate winters) but that
the wineries had such a long history (going back into the 19th century) that
was disconnected with the best European practices and catering to the
former American preference for sweet wines (the Schapira "winery" on the
Lower East Side used to have bags of sugar stacked to the ceiling), jug
wines, wines from Concord grapes, etc. The North Fork of Long Island is
producing some very nice wine from noble grapes on former potato fields.
Post by Andy Schecter
Speaking of unsunny climates, here's a plug for one of New York State's
Hermann Wiemer Riesling.
http://www.wiemer.com/
--
-Andy S.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/andy_s/sets/
Ken Blake
2008-03-23 20:51:25 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 16:38:36 -0400, "Jack Denver"
Post by Jack Denver
The secret of Riesling seems to be to have a German winemaker - the Germans
have long familiarity with this grape and know how to treat it.
So do the French, in Alsace.
--
Ken Blake
Please Reply to the Newsgroup
Jack Denver
2008-03-24 03:46:18 UTC
Permalink
You can argue whether Alsatians are really French...politically (and
nowadays even linguistically) yes but their culture, cuisine, wines, beers,
etc. are more German than French.

But yes Alsace is of course well know for its Rieslings.
Post by Ken Blake
On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 16:38:36 -0400, "Jack Denver"
Post by Jack Denver
The secret of Riesling seems to be to have a German winemaker - the Germans
have long familiarity with this grape and know how to treat it.
So do the French, in Alsace.
--
Ken Blake
Please Reply to the Newsgroup
Felix
2008-03-23 17:56:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack Denver
Post by Marshall
So, it was California "Riesling" for her
(and most of the table!) and dry wine for us.
[...]
No need for the scare quotes around Riesling -
it's the name of a grape and not a geographical
region like Champagne so it can be grown anywhere,
same as Cabernet or Sauvignon Blanc or whatever.
Some people don't even capitalize varietal names unless they're also
place names. On the other hand, a CA wine made from 51% Riesling can
be sold as Riesling, and the more affordable examples are often
blends. Even this (excellent) article uses inconsistent
capitalization:
http://www.thewinenews.com/augsep07/feat.asp
Post by Jack Denver
http://www.ste-michelle.com/Eroica_Riesling.cfm
Eroica is a good benchmark, and it's nice to avoid the problem of
deciphering German labels. Within the wine trade, riesling commands a
lot of respect. It needn't be just for spicy food and/or warm weather.


Felix
MOJO
2008-03-21 15:41:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob & Holly Wilson
snip
Anyone else try this already?
Bob Wilson
Huntsville, AL
I am still a novice at coffee. I have bought green from Cea but I am
not a self-proclaimed master roaster. I have done some tastings but
not at this level.

As a point of interest, my brother-in-law is doing the Magnum PI thing
(grounds keeper not security) on Maui. He has typically been several
steps behind me in his escalation of tastes such as beer, barbeque,
etc. and now coffee. Just to let you know, he was drinking Folgers
until last year and that's OK with me. Now though he has been exposed
to life with Kona and was originally very shocked at the price of
coffee even over there. Needing to fit in drives his evolution an
several fronts including getting comfy with Longboard Ale, Hawaiian
Tuna (AHI) and Kona. Yet he has made statements to me about how high
priced the coffee is and now he really doesn't care for "straight
Kona"?????
He came home recently and gave me samples of what he has been drinking
and I just wanted to share them with you.
Firstly and more importantly I wanted to describe the "straight Kona"
which he referred to. It is Lion brand.
I did not ask how much it cost but it is only 7oz., whole bean. The
front of th bag is plastered with Hawaii or its derivative four times.
It also mentions 100% Kona and Kona 24-Karat. Now I have to worry
about 18 Karat showing up somewhere! It claims to be Light Medium
Roast with a "Silky Smooth Finish." On the back of the bag, the URL
is listed and some additional information is provided. I am honored to
be tasting this coffee because upon my arrival to the website I see
that Lions claim to fame, "As the world's largest buyer and roaster of
Kona coffee beans, we know Kona Coffee!" OK. I opened the bag. It
doesn't appear light roasted, but that could be subjective, there is
oil showing but it smells interesting. Like maybe some chocolates. It
really doesn't jump up as great coffee and since your asking it is
mediocre at best. Please consider the novice source here. There is no
legible date code on the bag although there are some numbers beneath
the UPC code which may relate so something.

Ok now I am anxious to taste the coffee which my brother-in-law likes
so much. Again, Kona in his opinion was too strong. Maybe he was
putting too much in per cup who knows?

His preferred coffee is advertised as 4-Island blend and he says it is
less expensive. This comes from the coffee store at mauicoffee.com.
There are no claims to its contents. This sample came in a one lb.
bag. Upon opening, it again was showing oil and since you asked did
not look real fresh. No date code. Our (wife and father-in-law) rating
of the coffee - No big deal.

The next day I cooked some smoked brisket and served some 4 day old
Ethiopian Harrar with apple dumplings.
Comments: Wow is that coffee good!

I will be interested in seeing the results of the tasting if you are
successful in perusing it.

MOJO
(Roasters Mate Second Class)
(Maybe I would be First Class by now if I wasn't so sarcastic, maybe
not)
(I wonder where in cyberspace unposted posts end up?)
Bob & Holly Wilson
2008-03-29 10:46:51 UTC
Permalink
Bob & Holly Wilson <***@hotmail.com> wrote:

. . .
Post by Bob & Holly Wilson
I comes in a fancy box with a gold-foil bag. Costco sells these 1.5
pound bags for about $25. I have no idea how good it is, yet.
. . .. But I'll take it to work tomorrow and give a taste.
. . .

I only had two volunteers and sent each three coffee samples:

"A"
"B"
"C"

Cea has the code and I'll add my report after the other two get a chance
to taste and comment. Be fair, it will take them a week or so to
evaluate the coffee.

Bob Wilson
Nick Cramer
2008-03-30 09:07:04 UTC
Permalink
[]
Post by Bob & Holly Wilson
"A"
"B"
"C"
Cea has the code and I'll add my report after the other two get a chance
to taste and comment. Be fair, it will take them a week or so to
evaluate the coffee.
Sterling, Bob! I'm looking forward to your report, whenever it comes out.
--
Nick. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their families!
I've known US vets who served as far back as the Spanish American War. They
are all my heroes! Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not
forgotten. Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~
Bob & Holly Wilson
2008-04-05 11:51:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob & Holly Wilson
. . .
Post by Bob & Holly Wilson
I comes in a fancy box with a gold-foil bag. Costco sells these 1.5
pound bags for about $25. I have no idea how good it is, yet.
. . .. But I'll take it to work tomorrow and give a taste.
. . .
"A"
"B"
"C"
Cea has the code and I'll add my report after the other two get a chance
to taste and comment. Be fair, it will take them a week or so to
evaluate the coffee.
A little ad hoc, I had my wife taste test Parry Estate vs Smithfarms
Kona:

1) Straight, she prefered the Smithfarms because it didn't have the
aftertaste.

I find the Parry Estate aftertaste lasting and not in a nice way. To me,
it has a slight, bitter, acidic flavor that lingers on and on, at least
for 30+ minutes later. Worse, if I drink more than two double-shots in a
day, I get a caffeine headache.

In contrast, Smithfarms doesn't leave me with 'coffee breath' or if it
does, one I don't mind. I can drink it all day or even before bed and I
don't feel like I'm on a caffeine string.

2) With a touch of milk, she prefered the Parry Estate.

This is not unexpected. In the past I used milk with my coffee drinks
and still do if I'm away from home. Lactose does a good job of
moderating 'generic' coffee. But I stopped using milk in my Smithfarms
Kona roasted to my taste.

Bob Wilson
Bob & Holly Wilson
2008-04-05 11:51:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob & Holly Wilson
. . .
Post by Bob & Holly Wilson
I comes in a fancy box with a gold-foil bag. Costco sells these 1.5
pound bags for about $25. I have no idea how good it is, yet.
. . .. But I'll take it to work tomorrow and give a taste.
. . .
"A"
"B"
"C"
Cea has the code and I'll add my report after the other two get a chance
to taste and comment. Be fair, it will take them a week or so to
evaluate the coffee.
We have one report and one more expected:

--- first report ---
Post by Bob & Holly Wilson
Bob, my inexperience may have gotten the better of me.
(I should also mention that I have been drinking African coffees
almost exclusively for over half a year.) My last Kona was Cea's,
roasted by Barry. I believe this is a bit different than what she
sells directly, but it matched my previous impression of Kona.
On the other hand, none of the samples taste like Kona to me.
The one labeled B is the closest, but it seems out of balance.
I think those beans would be more interesting if they'd been
roasted a little more.
"B" is Smithfarms in what I call "City" roast due in part to the cool
weather that made it difficult to roast it to my ordinary taste. I use
an iRoast and it doesn't compensate for the ambient air temperature.

I was concerned it was under roasted but decided to compensate
by adding a third sample.
Post by Bob & Holly Wilson
The C sample is my favorite ("easily the best of the three" in
my notes), but is it Kona? I can't tell.
Yes it is and how I normally like my Smithfarms Kona.
Post by Bob & Holly Wilson
My least favorite (A) is essentially undrinkable. I'm not a
technical taster, but it seems scorched and maybe baked
as well. (Both A and C are visibly scorched.)
Correct, "A" is the Costco Parry Estate and I don't care for it.
Drinkable with milk, otherwise, I won't be buying it again. Given
the $25 for 1.5 pounds, I suspect it won't survive long on
the Costco floor.
Post by Bob & Holly Wilson
If I had to guess, I'd say that A is Costco, B is Cea's roasted
the way you like it, and C is your attempt to roast her beans to
match A's roast level.
Actually C is how I like it, well into the second crack, close to 'oil'
roast.
Post by Bob & Holly Wilson
Felix
- - - end report - - -

One more report is expected but I wanted to get these out for
the curious. As you can tell, the differences are quite distinct and
the 'blind' testing probably was never necessary.

Bob Wilson
b***@smithfarms.com
2008-04-05 16:34:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob & Holly Wilson
Post by Bob & Holly Wilson
. . .
Post by Bob & Holly Wilson
I comes in a fancy box with a gold-foil bag. Costco sells these 1.5
pound bags for about $25. I have no idea how good it is, yet.
. . .. But I'll take it to work tomorrow and give a taste.
. . .
"A"
"B"
"C"
Cea has the code and I'll add my report after the other two get a chance
to taste and comment. Be fair, it will take them a week or so to
evaluate the coffee.
--- first report ---
Post by Bob & Holly Wilson
Bob, my inexperience may have gotten the better of me.
(I should also mention that I have been drinking African coffees
almost exclusively for over half a year.) My last Kona was Cea's,
roasted by Barry. I believe this is a bit different than what she
sells directly, but it matched my previous impression of Kona.
On the other hand, none of the samples taste like Kona to me.
The one labeled B is the closest, but it seems out of balance.
I think those beans would be more interesting if they'd been
roasted a little more.
"B" is Smithfarms in what I call "City" roast due in part to the cool
weather that made it difficult to roast it to my ordinary taste. I use
an iRoast and it doesn't compensate for the ambient air temperature.
I was concerned it was under roasted but decided to compensate
by adding a third sample.
Post by Bob & Holly Wilson
The C sample is my favorite ("easily the best of the three" in
my notes), but is it Kona? I can't tell.
Yes it is and how I normally like my Smithfarms Kona.
Post by Bob & Holly Wilson
My least favorite (A) is essentially undrinkable. I'm not a
technical taster, but it seems scorched and maybe baked
as well. (Both A and C are visibly scorched.)
Correct, "A" is the Costco Parry Estate and I don't care for it.
Drinkable with milk, otherwise, I won't be buying it again. Given
the $25 for 1.5 pounds, I suspect it won't survive long on
the Costco floor.
Post by Bob & Holly Wilson
If I had to guess, I'd say that A is Costco, B is Cea's roasted
the way you like it, and C is your attempt to roast her beans to
match A's roast level.
Actually C is how I like it, well into the second crack, close to 'oil'
roast.
Post by Bob & Holly Wilson
Felix
- - - end report - - -
One more report is expected but I wanted to get these out for
the curious. As you can tell, the differences are quite distinct and
the 'blind' testing probably was never necessary.
Bob Wilson
:)
aloha,
Cea
roast beans to kona to email
farmers of Pure Kona
Felix
2008-04-06 00:38:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob & Holly Wilson
Actually C is how I like it, well into the second crack,
close to 'oil' roast.
Before I forget, thanks for letting me participate in your tasting ...

'C' didn't seem that dark to me, but it was dark enough to leave me
wondering if a similar result couldn't be produced without paying the
Kona premium. For example, I've bought Guatemalan coffee from
Metropolis that seemed comparable.

For paper-filtered coffee, I prefer Barry's Smithfarms, maybe because
Kona might be best when it's a melange. With this in mind, I mixed the
Smithfarm leftovers yesterday to make the best cup of my week.

Tasting details: my kitchen renovation is stalled, so I used my office
kit which consists of a Chinese reproduction of Melitta's 101 filter
holder, Melitta #2 filters, and a Geska grinder.


Felix
n***@gmail.com
2013-02-23 21:26:30 UTC
Permalink
My parents sometimes visit Hawaii, and they asked me about some coffee they have in a green bag. Not sure where they bought it, but they likely picked it up at Grocery Outlet. Wherever they got it, they showed me the bag and they wanted to know where it was; I guess they want to visit the plantation. My parents are internet deficient.

Here is the address on the package, which will provide a lot of nothing on Google Maps:
Parry Estate
Kona Gold Coffee Plantation
Top of Donkey Mill Rd
Kailua-Kona, HI 96745

Problem is, that's not a proper address, but the location is correct. While reading the posts made in this Google Group, I was able to track down Kona Premium Coffee using the local school as a reference point, Kamehameha.

Following another link provided in this Google Group, I was able to zero the location. A link for their web address lists their location at 19° 34’ 33.46" N, 155° 55’55.82" W. Google Maps brought up two locations, one at the specified point, and the other at a nearby location, 19.575961, -155.932172.

From 180 about 5 mi S of Waiaha Springs Forest Reserve, near the Shangri-lei B&B, Mokuaikaua Rd and Donkey Hill Rd are one in the same. The road ultimately dead-ends into a forced left, but the Google Maps nearby location is the land E of the dead end (straight in front of you if you're going up the road), and the Parry Estate coordinates are S just before the forced left.

Please note, that I have not been to Hawaii myself, by my brother is a U.S. Marine, and so he probably knows someone who knows the area and could confirm the location. I don't know if they allow anybody to just drop in on them; if you're looking for a plantation tour (which I think is what my parents are after), then you probably need to contact them first. I'd see their plantation website to contact them before visiting (http://www.goldcoffee.com), or you could try asking the staff of the Shangri-Lei as they'd likely know (unconfirmed).
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