Are HX's noisy?

[Marshall]

We're (that's husband talk for "my wife is tolerating") mulling over
putting a commercial single-group HX espresso machine into the bar
we're remodeling at home. The bar faces onto the living room, where we
normally read, watch tv and entertain. (I guess that's the definition
of a living room.)

Anyway, I'm reading in that other thread about pressurestat clicks,
autorefill pumping and steam release noise. So, never having lived
with such a machine, I was wondering how noticeable these sounds are
and whether they will be annoying.

I'm not looking for machine recommendations, just comments on whether
commercial machine noises are annoying in the home.

Marshall

[Brent]

I tend to only notice when something is wrong - ie steam wand left open.

The autofill etc is normally quick, and again, not a biggy.

Get a rotary pump is it's a real problem, as this is quieter than a vibe.
Got one of each.

Grinders going to make more noise :)

Brent

Post by Marshall
We're (that's husband talk for "my wife is tolerating") mulling over
putting a commercial single-group HX espresso machine into the bar
we're remodeling at home. The bar faces onto the living room, where we
normally read, watch tv and entertain. (I guess that's the definition
of a living room.)
Anyway, I'm reading in that other thread about pressurestat clicks,
autorefill pumping and steam release noise. So, never having lived
with such a machine, I was wondering how noticeable these sounds are
and whether they will be annoying.
I'm not looking for machine recommendations, just comments on whether
commercial machine noises are annoying in the home.
Marshall

[Marshall]

Post by Brent
I tend to only notice when something is wrong - ie steam wand left open.
The autofill etc is normally quick, and again, not a biggy.
Get a rotary pump is it's a real problem, as this is quieter than a vibe.
Got one of each.
Grinders going to make more noise :)

4-times-a-day sounds are o.k. Joan just hits the Tivo pause buttom
when I start the Mazzer. But, regular click, gurgle, hiss noises might
be a problem. I'm only looking at new equipment, which I gather has
new-style quieter pressurestats. It will (if I buy it) be a plumbed-in
rotary.

Marshall

[Paul Monaghan]

I have an older 3 group Faema with a Sirai, and I swear it sounds like
a hammer striking an anvil.

[gscace]

My office machine has a Sirai pressurestat and it makes a mild click
when turning on and off. Not very loud at all.

What commercial 1-group are you considering?

-Greg

[Java Man]

. . . I was wondering how noticeable these sounds are
and whether they will be annoying.

Depends. My old Cimbali M27 had a clicking Sirai Pstat, and it clunked,
as did the relay. It would be annoying.

My Wega Lyra has a less robust pressurestat but it's quieter -- it emits
only a faint "click". Boilers tend to make soft "breathing" noises as
the heater comes on and the pressure cycles back and forth across the
deadband. We have the Wega in our kitchen within 3 feet of my wife's
kitchen "desk". She objected to the noise at first, but now only
notices when the noise is atypical.

Rick

[GeeDubb]

Post by Marshall
We're (that's husband talk for "my wife is tolerating") mulling over
putting a commercial single-group HX espresso machine into the bar
we're remodeling at home. The bar faces onto the living room, where we
normally read, watch tv and entertain. (I guess that's the definition
of a living room.)
Anyway, I'm reading in that other thread about pressurestat clicks,
autorefill pumping and steam release noise. So, never having lived
with such a machine, I was wondering how noticeable these sounds are
and whether they will be annoying.
I'm not looking for machine recommendations, just comments on whether
commercial machine noises are annoying in the home.
Marshall

My Unic machine is a mid 90's model with really loud solenoid clicks (Paul
had a good description) and the p-stat is nearly as loud followed by the
hissing of heated water when the element is on. My wife doesn't hear them
but evidently Ken has heard them in Idaho.......I have more issues with the
pump noise when filling as I've got the machine on an RO set up with a small
1 gallon pressure tank. I believe the noise is due to the pressure not
being high enough and the pump cavitates, makiing one hell of a racket. I
plan on bipassing the RO one of these day to verify my belief.

I've been in the Illy shop here in Phoenix and the newest Unic machines are
extremely quiet compared to mine. Mine was supposedly refurbished (it was
exceptionally clean inside) before I bought it but I doubt the solenoids
were replaced. If I remember correctly, Al once mentioned that there are
quieter solenoid available now.

Brent hit it on the nose, the grinder is much louder.

Gary

[Ken Fox]

Post by Marshall
We're (that's husband talk for "my wife is tolerating") mulling over
putting a commercial single-group HX espresso machine into the bar
we're remodeling at home. The bar faces onto the living room, where we
normally read, watch tv and entertain. (I guess that's the definition
of a living room.)
Anyway, I'm reading in that other thread about pressurestat clicks,
autorefill pumping and steam release noise. So, never having lived
with such a machine, I was wondering how noticeable these sounds are
and whether they will be annoying.
I'm not looking for machine recommendations, just comments on whether
commercial machine noises are annoying in the home.
Marshall

I have found that if I wear either ear plugs or those expensive sound
cancelling headphones, I can't hear it at all; I do get occasional
complaints from the neighbors, though.

ken
:-)

I don't think you will hear one of the newer pstats. In the long run you
should transfer your PID stuff from the Zaffiro over to the new machine once
the warranty runs out.

[Barry Jarrett]

On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 20:53:44 GMT, Marshall

Post by Marshall
Anyway, I'm reading in that other thread about pressurestat clicks,
autorefill pumping and steam release noise. So, never having lived
with such a machine, I was wondering how noticeable these sounds are
and whether they will be annoying.

the autofill can be disconcerting until you get used to it, especially
in the middle of the night.

the solenoid tends to get ignored, like the hum of the fridge or the
hwump of the furnace turning on. my marzocco one is pretty quiet,
actually. i don't know why.

--barry "old furnace"

[Barry Jarrett]

On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 21:33:11 GMT, Barry Jarrett

Post by Barry Jarrett
the solenoid tends to get ignored, like the hum of the fridge or the
hwump of the furnace turning on. my marzocco one is pretty quiet,
actually. i don't know why.

ack! i mean "pressurestat" instead of "solenoid".

[Marshall]

On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 21:33:11 GMT, Barry Jarrett

Post by Barry Jarrett
On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 20:53:44 GMT, Marshall

Post by Marshall
Anyway, I'm reading in that other thread about pressurestat clicks,
autorefill pumping and steam release noise. So, never having lived
with such a machine, I was wondering how noticeable these sounds are
and whether they will be annoying.

the autofill can be disconcerting until you get used to it, especially
in the middle of the night.
the solenoid tends to get ignored, like the hum of the fridge or the
hwump of the furnace turning on. my marzocco one is pretty quiet,
actually. i don't know why.
--barry "old furnace"

Maybe it sounds like the ice-cube maker periodically refilling water
and dumping ice.

Marshall "will see if Pasquini will let me sleep on the showroom floor
one night)

[Paul Pratt]

Post by Barry Jarrett
On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 20:53:44 GMT, Marshall

Post by Marshall
Anyway, I'm reading in that other thread about pressurestat clicks,
autorefill pumping and steam release noise. So, never having lived
with such a machine, I was wondering how noticeable these sounds are
and whether they will be annoying.

the autofill can be disconcerting until you get used to it, especially
in the middle of the night.
the solenoid tends to get ignored, like the hum of the fridge or the
hwump of the furnace turning on. my marzocco one is pretty quiet,
actually. i don't know why.
--barry "old furnace"

What is weird is how I have noticed machines from different years make
different noises. About 3 months ago we rebuilt my first Linea sale which
dates from 97. After the usual descaling and rebuilding we slap it all
back together and switch it on...wow the autofil noise was smooth as silk
and really quiet. It happened again on a 98 linea it was just magic. Then
you get to around 2002 onwards and they start to get a bit more noisy with
the check valves rattling as they fill up and brew. Maybe the springs have
a different tension (?)

I recently managed to sneak a machine back into my flat, (a little marzocco
with the 2 boilers stacked on top of each other) and because it's such a
small flat the autofil is noticeable - more noticeable because it is such a
small boiler that it blips on and off a few times due to the sloshing of
the water inside rather than one long controlled on then off. I had
planned to disconnect the pump lead from the autofil as this would improve
it no end, stealth mode! However before my pump I have a solenoid valve so
the water can only flow if the machine wants it to - yeah I'm a big
chiecken I know and was afraid of leaks - after the trouble I had of
getting permission to stick it in our small kitchen any sign of a leak and
it's out of there! The solenoid is wired to the pump so it needs that to
come on to open the valve. I could run a separate wire but the
solenoid/pump is a long way away and I couldn't be bothered.

Some of the Marzoccos with the newer CEME and the contactor are LOUD. I
have found the Telemecanque range of contactors are very quiet compared
with some Allen-Bradleys and Fuji's I have also used. The telemecanques
have some sort of coil suppression filter inside and if you also attach an
EMF filter to the coil then it won't bugger up your other appliances.

If I was going to stick a 2 group at home I would use an SSR on the steam
tank anyway.

Paul

[Barry Jarrett]

Post by Paul Pratt
Some of the Marzoccos with the newer CEME and the contactor are LOUD.

*really* loud!


most of the time my sirai doesn't even make any noise, or at most a
small click..... i just hear the water start to heat.

[Ken Fox]

Post by Barry Jarrett

Post by Paul Pratt
Some of the Marzoccos with the newer CEME and the contactor are LOUD.

*really* loud!
most of the time my sirai doesn't even make any noise, or at most a
small click..... i just hear the water start to heat.

The Sirai in my old Junior pourover was audible but not annoying; it would
have been manufactured in 1995. The OEM Cimbali microswitched pstat in my
rotary machine is inaudible. In both machines one can hear the element
coming on and heating the water.

With PIDs, at idle, I don't hear anything coming out of either machine, but
after frothing one can hear the element/water heating noise (of course).

ken

[Barry Jarrett]

if you PID it, then you'll have no pstat noise at all.

:)

--barry "gurgle and hiss"

[JoeP]

Hi Marshal,

I have heard only one that was loud. That is the Pasquini Livia 90, the
auto-fill is startling when it operates. Especially when you first turn
it on. My Pasquini Livietta is noiseless but doesn't have the auto-fill
feature.

Joe
www.cafegreenbean.com
www.sandpipercoffee.net

[daveb]

my 1 cent worth:

My wife HATED the HX unit I got -- (it is a big one all stainless, I'll
leave out the names) Definetely did not want it ON all day! Same
autofill and same Sirai as used in most upscale units.

VERY low WAF -- [wife acceptance factor} on a 1 to 10 = 3 -- your
results may vary!

-- hell she has to put up with my stereo too!

Dave

[D. Ross]

| I'm not looking for machine recommendations, just comments on whether
| commercial machine noises are annoying in the home.

Our Techno is much quieter, both between shots and during shots, than the
Gaggia home machine it replaced. No pressurestat, however.

- David R.
--
Less information than you ever thought possible:
http://www.demitasse.net

[SteveW]

Marshall
I just bought a ECM Giotto Premium and it is very quiet. It makes no
noise when it is on untill you pull a shot or steam. Then it is not
very loud. We have a house that is very open and noise in the kitchen
can be heard in the master bedroom. I make espresso only every morning
and I don't wake her. I was afaid it would be loud and was really happy
that it wasn't.

Steve

[Marshall]

On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 20:53:44 GMT, Marshall

Post by Marshall
We're (that's husband talk for "my wife is tolerating") mulling over
putting a commercial single-group HX espresso machine into the bar
we're remodeling at home. The bar faces onto the living room, where we
normally read, watch tv and entertain. (I guess that's the definition
of a living room.)
Anyway, I'm reading in that other thread about pressurestat clicks,
autorefill pumping and steam release noise. So, never having lived
with such a machine, I was wondering how noticeable these sounds are
and whether they will be annoying.
I'm not looking for machine recommendations, just comments on whether
commercial machine noises are annoying in the home.
Marshall

Thanks for all the responses. They have been very helpful. I think the
noise probably will not be a problem. But, just to be sure, I'm going
to ask Pasquini if I can sleep on their showroom floor overnight.

Marshall

[Cordovero]

I agree with most of what's been said in the threads. I have a Giotto with
a Sirai installed. At first I was living in a 1 bedroom apartment, with the
kitchen very close to the living room. The Sirai's click every minute and
the "breathing" sound of the water heating were definitely audible all the
time. It was hard to read.

Now I'm in a house with the Giotto in the kitchen. With that arrangement
PLUS MY BRAIN GETTING USED TO IT, it's acceptable.

If yours is going to be in the den, and people are going to have no music or
tv on, it's going to be quite disruptive, even without the vibe pump
clicking on during autorefill.

If I moved back into a small apartment, I'd probably get a cheap Ceme
pressurestat and replace the Sirai, or put the Giotto in storage and use my
backup Gaggia.

C

Post by Marshall
We're (that's husband talk for "my wife is tolerating") mulling over
putting a commercial single-group HX espresso machine into the bar
we're remodeling at home. The bar faces onto the living room, where we
normally read, watch tv and entertain. (I guess that's the definition
of a living room.)
Anyway, I'm reading in that other thread about pressurestat clicks,
autorefill pumping and steam release noise. So, never having lived
with such a machine, I was wondering how noticeable these sounds are
and whether they will be annoying.
I'm not looking for machine recommendations, just comments on whether
commercial machine noises are annoying in the home.
Marshall

[Marshall]

On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 03:14:54 GMT, "Cordovero"

Post by Cordovero
I agree with most of what's been said in the threads. I have a Giotto with
a Sirai installed. At first I was living in a 1 bedroom apartment, with the
kitchen very close to the living room. The Sirai's click every minute and
the "breathing" sound of the water heating were definitely audible all the
time. It was hard to read.
Now I'm in a house with the Giotto in the kitchen. With that arrangement
PLUS MY BRAIN GETTING USED TO IT, it's acceptable.
If yours is going to be in the den, and people are going to have no music or
tv on, it's going to be quite disruptive, even without the vibe pump
clicking on during autorefill.
If I moved back into a small apartment, I'd probably get a cheap Ceme
pressurestat and replace the Sirai, or put the Giotto in storage and use my
backup Gaggia.
C

Anyone know if the pressurestats in new commercial machines are
quieter?

Marshall "leaning toward a Rancilio Epoca or Cimbali Jr."

[Martin]

Hi Marshall,

Just my 2 cents: I have the original NS Oscar. There were two reasons I
got my Zaffiro and put the Oscar in storage. The CEME/Mater
pressurestat problems but moreso the NOISE from autofill-- with the 52W
Ulka vibe. With a plumbed in rotary all you've got are Sirai clicks to
deal with.

BTW, I contacted the SF Whole Foods, no word yet on any Black Cat
coming up here (we're in the NW region, oddly enough, not the same one
as LA).

Take care,

Martin

Post by Marshall
On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 03:14:54 GMT, "Cordovero"

Post by Cordovero
I agree with most of what's been said in the threads. I have a Giotto with
a Sirai installed. At first I was living in a 1 bedroom apartment, with the
kitchen very close to the living room. The Sirai's click every minute and
the "breathing" sound of the water heating were definitely audible all the
time. It was hard to read.
Now I'm in a house with the Giotto in the kitchen. With that arrangement
PLUS MY BRAIN GETTING USED TO IT, it's acceptable.
If yours is going to be in the den, and people are going to have no music or
tv on, it's going to be quite disruptive, even without the vibe pump
clicking on during autorefill.
If I moved back into a small apartment, I'd probably get a cheap Ceme
pressurestat and replace the Sirai, or put the Giotto in storage and use my
backup Gaggia.
C

Anyone know if the pressurestats in new commercial machines are
quieter?
Marshall "leaning toward a Rancilio Epoca or Cimbali Jr."

[Cordovero]

It really all depends how far away you are from the machine. If you have an
enclosed kitchen, the clicks won't travel through walls. If it's on the
counter in the den, the clicks are Chinese water torture if you're trying to
read or take a nap or do anything in silence.

But Martin is right about the autofill. I can be in the room next to the
kitchen (open door) and the autofill, which only happens maybe once every
three or four hours when idle, makes me jump out of my skin. Yukky vibe
pumps.

C

Post by Martin
Hi Marshall,
Just my 2 cents: I have the original NS Oscar. There were two reasons I
got my Zaffiro and put the Oscar in storage. The CEME/Mater
pressurestat problems but moreso the NOISE from autofill-- with the 52W
Ulka vibe. With a plumbed in rotary all you've got are Sirai clicks to
deal with.
BTW, I contacted the SF Whole Foods, no word yet on any Black Cat
coming up here (we're in the NW region, oddly enough, not the same one
as LA).
Take care,
Martin

Post by Marshall
On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 03:14:54 GMT, "Cordovero"

Post by Cordovero
I agree with most of what's been said in the threads. I have a Giotto with
a Sirai installed. At first I was living in a 1 bedroom apartment, with the
kitchen very close to the living room. The Sirai's click every minute and
the "breathing" sound of the water heating were definitely audible all the
time. It was hard to read.
Now I'm in a house with the Giotto in the kitchen. With that arrangement
PLUS MY BRAIN GETTING USED TO IT, it's acceptable.
If yours is going to be in the den, and people are going to have no music or
tv on, it's going to be quite disruptive, even without the vibe pump
clicking on during autorefill.
If I moved back into a small apartment, I'd probably get a cheap Ceme
pressurestat and replace the Sirai, or put the Giotto in storage and use my
backup Gaggia.
C

Anyone know if the pressurestats in new commercial machines are
quieter?
Marshall "leaning toward a Rancilio Epoca or Cimbali Jr."

[g***@comcast.net]

Agree on the Oscar autofill-sounds like an alarm clock.

[D. Ross]

| Marshall "leaning toward a Rancilio Epoca or Cimbali Jr."

No real^H^H^H^Hdouble boiler machines?

- David R.
--
Less information than you ever thought possible:
http://www.demitasse.net

[JasonL]

My Astra Mega, a HX E61 type machine with Sirai pressure stat, can be
noisy. I did have to padded my water pipe from the water softener
which reduced the noisy vibrating pipe. Every so frequently, the
heating element heat up the water, but no louder than your oven fan.
By far, the most noisy part is the grinder. I'm sure this will be a
conversation piece.

Jason

[yoma]

Post by Marshall
We're (that's husband talk for "my wife is tolerating") mulling over
putting a commercial single-group HX espresso machine into the bar
we're remodeling at home. The bar faces onto the living room, where we
normally read, watch tv and entertain. (I guess that's the definition
of a living room.)
Anyway, I'm reading in that other thread about pressurestat clicks,
autorefill pumping and steam release noise. So, never having lived
with such a machine, I was wondering how noticeable these sounds are
and whether they will be annoying.
I'm not looking for machine recommendations, just comments on whether
commercial machine noises are annoying in the home.

My experience..

Cimbali Jr S1 Faema E98A1
Manual/Tank Auto/Plumbed
-------------- ---------------------
Pump Noisy Very quiet and smooth
P/Stat Solid CLICK Barely audible tick
Refill N/A This is noisiest part but quieter than
the Cimbali vibration pump

An inappropriate bench can effectively amplify the pump noise.

The grinder is easily the noisiest part, and this will vary depending on
the grinder.

[sprsso]

The machine I am currently using ( and not very much lately) is a
Pasquini rebadged Cimbali M27. Only reheat draws my attention while in
the same room. No audible click from the pressurestat, refill is
achieved without employing the pump. I am probably not the person to
answer this as the sounds produced by an espresso machine are like
music to a conductor. The Pony Espresso noise was irritating, but only
during extraction. And since it has been in my garage for a couple of
years, it hasn't bothered me at all.....al


On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 20:53:44 GMT, Marshall

Post by Marshall
We're (that's husband talk for "my wife is tolerating") mulling over
putting a commercial single-group HX espresso machine into the bar
we're remodeling at home. The bar faces onto the living room, where we
normally read, watch tv and entertain. (I guess that's the definition
of a living room.)
Anyway, I'm reading in that other thread about pressurestat clicks,
autorefill pumping and steam release noise. So, never having lived
with such a machine, I was wondering how noticeable these sounds are
and whether they will be annoying.
I'm not looking for machine recommendations, just comments on whether
commercial machine noises are annoying in the home.
Marshall

[Sheldon T. Hall - DO NOT MAIL]

On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 20:53:44 GMT, Marshall

Post by Marshall
We're (that's husband talk for "my wife is tolerating") mulling over
putting a commercial single-group HX espresso machine into the bar
we're remodeling at home. The bar faces onto the living room, where we
normally read, watch tv and entertain. (I guess that's the definition
of a living room.)
Anyway, I'm reading in that other thread about pressurestat clicks,
autorefill pumping and steam release noise. So, never having lived
with such a machine, I was wondering how noticeable these sounds are
and whether they will be annoying.
I'm not looking for machine recommendations, just comments on whether
commercial machine noises are annoying in the home.

Although my two-group La Marzocco GS-2 isn't an HX machine _per_se_,
it is in the bar, which is also my office. It's also the "media
room," such as it is. I.e. we sit on the sheepdog's futon to watch
movies on the ratty old TV connected to the cheap DVD player....

In any case, it's not objectionably noisy.

There's no hissing unless something's wrong.

The cycling of the brew boiler heater is inaudible.

The autofill isn't particularly bad, and it's much better since I
disconnected the lead that fires up the pump when the autofill runs.
Water main pressure being over twice steam-boiler pressure, the pump
wasn't nessa.

The occasional CLICK of the pressurestat is quite audible, but isn't a
showstopper.

The _sotto_voce_ rumble of the actual steam boiler heating up is
audible if there's nothing else going on in the room.

All-in-all, it's not a bother at all, even to members of the household
normally bothered by small noises.

-Shel