entering the realm of the pump espresso machine (help!)

[matthew j henschel]

Well, I'm attempting to give this pump espresso thing a go, as I had a
cup of espresso at a local coffee house the other week that was just -
amazing-. I bought a krups 964 on ebay that pulled three pretty damn
tasty double shots out of some Lavazza; at which point the pump decided
to crap out.

So, undeterred, I purchased a used coffee gaggia coffee this morning. I
was completely excited, as I've heard nothing but good of the gaggia
name. The 964 pulled such great shots I figured a gaggia could only do
better.

Boy was I wrong on that one. I've spent all day dorking with this
cursed machine, and all I get is sour and bitter. I had maybe two that
were bareable, but not even close to what the 964 pulled. Honestly,
it's not much better then my delonghi steam toy.

I've cleaned the hell out of the thing (though the next step is to
actually disassemble the boiler and really go through it).

Using the digital thermometer and the styrofoam cup trick, I noted it
was pulling cold (80C or so) so I backed out the thermostat a few
notches and it pulls right around 94C/204F. It still pulls quick, but
the stream does stay dark for a smidge longer. I get maybe 8-10 seconds
from the throw of the switch before it goes light with a FIERCE tamp and
a fresh can of lavazza cafe espresso and/or some local stuff freshly
roasted & finely ground (from a dc chain called mayorga).

Any ideas on what to do to make this thing taste any good? She's a
Coffee Gaggia model-- not the latest, but the one that looks like the
Classic minus the 3 way solenoid. The way it's pulling now, I'd just as
soon keep using the steam toy. It's pretty sour stuff to my palate.

Help!! I so desperately need a good shot of espresso at the flick of a
switch.


-Matt

[e***@comcast.net]

Matt I suspect that what you are finding out is that it is a bit harder
to use a real espresso machine that a pressurized portafilered one.With
the Gaggia you simply have to have a good prosumer grinder and a little
practice to get the grind right .There is no such thing as fine.At
least not if your coffee shops fine, at the propper amount, to a good
30 or so pound tamp gives you a 12 second double..With the pressurized
portafilter the grind is not as important.And the espresso ,is also not
as good..Making espresso is a bit of an art you know....Try over
filling the portafilter..Then look for a good grinder.I use a Rocky
,there are others...Good Luck.......Earl

[matthew j henschel]

Post by e***@comcast.net
Matt I suspect that what you are finding out is that it is a bit harder
to use a real espresso machine that a pressurized portafilered

one.With

Post by e***@comcast.net
the Gaggia you simply have to have a good prosumer grinder and a little
practice to get the grind right .There is no such thing as fine.At
least not if your coffee shops fine, at the propper amount, to a good
30 or so pound tamp gives you a 12 second double..With the pressurized
portafilter the grind is not as important.And the espresso ,is also not
as good..Making espresso is a bit of an art you know....Try over
filling the portafilter..Then look for a good grinder.I use a Rocky
,there are others...Good Luck.......Earl

I suppose you could be right about the grind, however I'm just shocked
that the cheezy thermoblock krups 964 pulled a far superior shot then
the gaggia. The only explaination I can come up with is that the krups
doesn't pump as hard and is therefore more suited to the grind I had
going before.

Guess I need to pony up some dough for a grinder now, unless I'm missing
something else...

[Danny]

Post by matthew j henschel
I suppose you could be right about the grind, however I'm just shocked
that the cheezy thermoblock krups 964 pulled a far superior shot then
the gaggia. The only explaination I can come up with is that the krups
doesn't pump as hard and is therefore more suited to the grind I had
going before.
Guess I need to pony up some dough for a grinder now, unless I'm missing
something else...

You're not missing anything else - grinder first, since it's the most
important part of espresso.

[Cordovero]

Post by Danny
You're not missing anything else - grinder first, since it's the most
important part of espresso.

Tamper, knockbox, digital thermometer, stainless pitcher, water hardness
test strips, porcelain espresso cups, shotglasses, and of course, I-Roast,
chimney extender, .....

:)

C

[Danny]

Post by Cordovero

Post by Danny
You're not missing anything else - grinder first, since it's the most
important part of espresso.

Tamper, knockbox, digital thermometer, stainless pitcher, water hardness
test strips, porcelain espresso cups, shotglasses, and of course, I-Roast,
chimney extender, .....

Yebbut....

I can tamp fine with the bottom of a heinz ketchup bottle or a coke
glass, an old plastic oddbin/parts bin with a piece of wood is my
knock box, I scavenged espresso cups and saucers from my local
commercial 2nd hand catering supplier (£5 for a large basket full),
Prima is still OK as a roaster, although the unfinished 1lb roaster
would be better...Whereas the Cimbali Cadet is the best thing I've
bought after the lever machines...

[Cordovero]

I can tamp fine with the bottom of a heinz ketchup bottle or a coke glass,
an old plastic oddbin/parts bin with a piece of wood is my knock box, I
scavenged espresso cups and saucers from my local commercial 2nd hand
catering supplier (£5 for a large basket full), ...

You're a better man than I. I actually tried a lot of things for tamping,
and all were awful compared to a genuine tamper of the proper size. And I
was surprised when I picked up some Lavazza cups from Chris how much of a
difference a really thick cup makes to heat retention -- not to mention not
chipping when you knock them over accidentally.

C

[Danny]

Post by Cordovero

I can tamp fine with the bottom of a heinz ketchup bottle or a coke glass,
an old plastic oddbin/parts bin with a piece of wood is my knock box, I
scavenged espresso cups and saucers from my local commercial 2nd hand
catering supplier (£5 for a large basket full), ...

You're a better man than I. I actually tried a lot of things for tamping,
and all were awful compared to a genuine tamper of the proper size. And I
was surprised when I picked up some Lavazza cups from Chris how much of a
difference a really thick cup makes to heat retention -- not to mention not
chipping when you knock them over accidentally.
C

My espresso cups at home are all 2nd hand and are all branded - mostly
lavazza and Segafreda. They are the real deal, not unlike the
Trucillo I use in the trailer. The older Lavazza cups have a nice V
shape to them and the Segafreda cups are square, with square saucers
too, in different colours...

A coke glass seems to have a 56mm or so base, much the same as a small
Heinz glass bottle...

My first tamper (pictured on the site) was home made from Brass.

Talking of heat retention, thinner cups hold the heat better than
thick. I have both and my customers have actually mentioned that the
espresso stays hotter in the thinner cups, since, I assume, the
thicker material leeches the heat from the shot, even though I preheat
the cups before use.

[Cordovero]

Post by Danny
Talking of heat retention, thinner cups hold the heat better than
thick. I have both and my customers have actually mentioned that the
espresso stays hotter in the thinner cups, since, I assume, the thicker
material leeches the heat from the shot, even though I preheat the cups
before use.

Well, I do the unthinkable: I steam/foam the milk for my cappas directly in
the Lavazza cappa cups (which are wonderfully on the large size at around 9
oz -- i forget exactly), so they really heat up excellently. I think you
must be right that thicker porcelain at first draws heat from the liquid,
but it should actually retain heat in itself better. I then immediately
pull shots into preheated (with an hx flush) cups and then they go right
into the milk while they're still mostly crema. So it works for me. In
fact, I think the heat-stealing thing is why I can really microfoam well in
the cups, instead of the milk heating up too quickly.

C

[Danny]

Post by Cordovero

Post by Danny
Talking of heat retention, thinner cups hold the heat better than
thick. I have both and my customers have actually mentioned that the
espresso stays hotter in the thinner cups, since, I assume, the thicker
material leeches the heat from the shot, even though I preheat the cups
before use.

Well, I do the unthinkable: I steam/foam the milk for my cappas directly in
the Lavazza cappa cups (which are wonderfully on the large size at around 9
oz -- i forget exactly), so they really heat up excellently. I think you
must be right that thicker porcelain at first draws heat from the liquid,
but it should actually retain heat in itself better. I then immediately
pull shots into preheated (with an hx flush) cups and then they go right
into the milk while they're still mostly crema. So it works for me. In
fact, I think the heat-stealing thing is why I can really microfoam well in
the cups, instead of the milk heating up too quickly.
C

Sorry, I thought you were talking about espresso cups. 9oz is big for
a branded cup - Italian cappuccino cups I have are less than 6oz.
Stealing heat from a 1.5oz shot is far more likely than with a larger
volume of liquid.

[Cordovero]

Post by Danny
Sorry, I thought you were talking about espresso cups.

I actually do have Lavazza espresso cups, too, but I can't resist using the
shot glasses so I can see more of what's going on.

C

[Jim the Noob]

Hi Matt,

I can only echo what others have already said about getting a good
grinder, and beans as fresh as you can find. I should think that will
get you past where you were with the Krups, taste-wise. But I'm real

Post by matthew j henschel
Using the digital thermometer and the styrofoam cup trick, I noted it
was pulling cold (80C or so) so I backed out the thermostat a few
notches and it pulls right around 94C/204F.

Does your Gaggia Coffee have an adjustable thermostat?? Or do you
mean you unscrewed the thermal switch from the boiler a little bit?

Jim (another Gaggia owner)

[e***@comcast.net]

You dont seem to understand Matt..The Krups had a Built in device in
its portafilter that made the pressure inside the portafilter..The real
espresso makers
count on the tamp and grind to do this.When you get a propper grinder
you will see the what I mean..Trust me Matt.The Krups aint better that
the Gaggia......

[matthew j henschel]

Post by e***@comcast.net
You dont seem to understand Matt..The Krups had a Built in device in
its portafilter that made the pressure inside the portafilter..The
real espresso makers
count on the tamp and grind to do this.When you get a propper grinder
you will see the what I mean..Trust me Matt.The Krups aint better that
the Gaggia......

Huh? The portafilters look just about identical on the two models.
What is this device you speak of?

I still can't help but be a little bummed though, I really dig lavazza
and I don't see why it shouldn't pull fine in any decent machine. The
Gaggia is old and second hand, so I can't help but think something isn't
calibrated correctly or functioning right. I guess I'll have to wait
until I find a good deal on a decent grinder though to know for sure.

[D. Ross]

| I still can't help but be a little bummed though, I really dig lavazza
| and I don't see why it shouldn't pull fine in any decent machine. The
| Gaggia is old and second hand, so I can't help but think something isn't
| calibrated correctly or functioning right.

Check your water debit - flow for 10 seconds from switch 'on', through an
empty pf - if the temp and debit are OK then there is nothing wrong with the
machine.

As for preground Lavazza, the grind is optimized for a moka pot, and while I
have had unreasonably good luck with it using a pressure controlled machine
(see link on the website in my .sig) your good shots with the Krups might
indeed not be obtainable on the Gaggia.

- David R.
--
Less information than you ever thought possible:
http://www.demitasse.net

[e***@comcast.net]

You dont seem to understand Matt..The Krups had a built in device in
its portafilter that made the pressure inside the portafilter..The real
espresso makers
count on the tamp and grind to do this.When you get a propper grinder
you will see the what I mean..Trust me Matt.The Krups aint better than
the Gaggia......

[matthew j henschel]

Post by Jim the Noob
Hi Matt,
I can only echo what others have already said about getting a good
grinder, and beans as fresh as you can find. I should think that will
get you past where you were with the Krups, taste-wise. But I'm real

Post by matthew j henschel
Using the digital thermometer and the styrofoam cup trick, I noted it
was pulling cold (80C or so) so I backed out the thermostat a few
notches and it pulls right around 94C/204F.

Does your Gaggia Coffee have an adjustable thermostat?? Or do you
mean you unscrewed the thermal switch from the boiler a little bit?
Jim (another Gaggia owner)

No, I've got nothing special, just the basic simple old coffee gaggia.
Just unscrewed the switch about 4 or 5 turns. I should probably replace
it, but hadn't found a good source for parts yet. While I'm on the
subject, any idea where I can find parts for the gaggia and for my
krups? The krups needs a thermal switch, a thermal fuse, and probably a
pump. I don't know if it's worth repairing or not, but I only paid $35
shipped to my door for it so if I can get it running for another $30 or
$40 it'd be a great second machine for the office or something.

[Jim the Noob]

On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 23:38:18 -0500, matthew j henschel

Post by matthew j henschel
No, I've got nothing special, just the basic simple old coffee gaggia.
Just unscrewed the switch about 4 or 5 turns. I should probably replace
it, but hadn't found a good source for parts yet.

Yes, forgive my finger-wagging if you're already aware of this, but
leaving the t-stat switch partially unscrewed like that is probably an
unstable situation. Better in the long run to replace it.

Post by matthew j henschel
While I'm on the
subject, any idea where I can find parts for the gaggia and for my
krups? The krups needs a thermal switch, a thermal fuse, and probably a
pump. I don't know if it's worth repairing or not, but I only paid $35
shipped to my door for it so if I can get it running for another $30 or
$40 it'd be a great second machine for the office or something.

Lots of places online have Gaggia parts - Electracraft (Electrocraft?
Maybe hyphenated?), wholelattelove.com, partsguru.com, etc. Google
will find more. Come to think, I haven't noticed anyone advertising
Krups parts, although I haven't been looking for them specifically
either. I think I read somewhere that their stuff is coming from Asia
these days, which might make it tougher to get parts for them than for
the Italian machines. Good luck, and let us know if you find any good
sources...

Jim

[bk]

Post by matthew j henschel
Help!! I so desperately need a good shot of espresso at the flick of a
switch.

ROTFLMAO

If only it were so simple. You have embarked on a journey that never
ends. You evidently appreciate a good shot, so you'll never be fully
satisfied(you'll have some good and maybe great shots but always
looking just slighty more--reminds me of the alt.coffee t-shirt) If
you read the posts by some of the more "hardcore" people in this
newsgroup you will see just how far you can go looking for the
godshot.(you seem to be well on your way though by taking the temp of
the water)

For now you need a decent grinder and fresh beans(not the lavazza- no
commercial coffee is fresh). FOr a cheap entry level grinder I like
the solis maestro PLUS(must be the plus, people here will say not to
bother with a low end grinder like this(or take a small gamble on a
used rocky or something on ebay) but it should be fine to hold you over
for a year or so they tend to forget not everyone is super hardcore)
Then go back to your local roaster(or order some beans off the net-No
starbucks!) I'd be willing to bet they didn't grind it near fine
enough, it'll take a few shots to get your grind set right for a 25ish
second pull. And the lavazza is definetly not ground fine enough. They
pretty much assume people buying it will have low end espresso machines
and anything really fine would choke them. 10 seconds sounds about
right for the lavazza grind, so I would think your machine is probably
operating pretty close to specs.
-bk
Sorry for writing so much I'm just bored & sitting at the helpdesk at
8am on a sunday after a triple iced americano

[Dave B]

matt:

dump the krups.

Do NOT unscrew the thermostat at all, that is NOT an adustment, it is
to be screwed down at all times. There are NO adjustable thermostats
in this unit, whatsoever.

I echo the questions of the other esteemed 'alties', what is your
grinder? You MUST have a good grinder and freshly ground coffee.

dave

910 616 0980 - advice given freely :o)

[Seth Goodman]

Post by matthew j henschel
Well, I'm attempting to give this pump espresso thing a go, as I had a
cup of espresso at a local coffee house the other week that was just -
amazing-. I bought a krups 964 on ebay that pulled three pretty damn
tasty double shots out of some Lavazza; at which point the pump decided
to crap out.
So, undeterred, I purchased a used coffee gaggia coffee this morning. I
was completely excited, as I've heard nothing but good of the gaggia
name. The 964 pulled such great shots I figured a gaggia could only do
better.
Boy was I wrong on that one. I've spent all day dorking with this
cursed machine, and all I get is sour and bitter. I had maybe two that
were bareable, but not even close to what the 964 pulled. Honestly,
it's not much better then my delonghi steam toy.
I've cleaned the hell out of the thing (though the next step is to
actually disassemble the boiler and really go through it).
Using the digital thermometer and the styrofoam cup trick, I noted it
was pulling cold (80C or so) so I backed out the thermostat a few
notches and it pulls right around 94C/204F. It still pulls quick, but
the stream does stay dark for a smidge longer. I get maybe 8-10 seconds
from the throw of the switch before it goes light with a FIERCE tamp and
a fresh can of lavazza cafe espresso and/or some local stuff freshly
roasted & finely ground (from a dc chain called mayorga).
Any ideas on what to do to make this thing taste any good? She's a
Coffee Gaggia model-- not the latest, but the one that looks like the
Classic minus the 3 way solenoid. The way it's pulling now, I'd just as
soon keep using the steam toy. It's pretty sour stuff to my palate.
Help!! I so desperately need a good shot of espresso at the flick of a
switch.

Hi Matt,

First of all, the people who've been telling you that the Krups 964 has
a pressurized portafilter are wrong - it doesn't. I know - I've got a
964 in the basement.

Second, have a look at this post made by Roger Barrett, a respected a.c
source, about the 964 a couple of years ago:

http://tinyurl.com/drpna

Note he states one of the attributes of the 964 is:
"Machine takes a grind that is coarser than most other home pump
machines". This is the one of the reasons you were getting better shots
using pre-ground Lavazza on the Krups than on the Gaggia. The Lavazza is
too coarsely ground for the Gaggia (or just about *any* pump espresso
machine).

As others have said, to get better shots on the Gaggia, you *must* get a
good grinder, as pre-ground coffee won't cut it on the new machine.

BTW, I replaced my 964 with a Gaggia Espresso, and get *significantly*
better shots with the Gaggia. But I use freshly roasted coffee, ground
in a Mazzer Mini. To repeat what's frequently said around here, the
grinder is more important than the machine. Really.


As for your thermostat - have you let the machine warm up for twenty
minutes before testing? The 964 has a thermoblock, and is ready to use a
lot faster than the Gaggia, which has a boiler. If you are letting the
machine warm twenty minutes, and it's still testing at 80 degrees C.,
then it sounds like the brew thermostat is defective - and you *can't*
recalibrate it, as Dave B pointed out. (My Gaggia tests at 201 degrees
F., for a reference point.)

There's two ways you can go, if your brew thermostat is running cold:

1) Replace your thermostat with a new one. Here's WLL's instructions on
thermostat replacement (and they'll also sell you a new thermostat):
http://www.wholelattelove.com/articles.cfm?articleID=59

2) Hit the steam switch for a short time before pulling a shot. This
will boost the boiler temperature above what the brew thermostat is set
for. Try different amounts of time, perhaps in five second increments,
until the coffee tastes right.

[matthew j henschel]

Post by Seth Goodman

Post by matthew j henschel
Well, I'm attempting to give this pump espresso thing a go, as I had
a cup of espresso at a local coffee house the other week that was
just - amazing-. I bought a krups 964 on ebay that pulled three
pretty damn tasty double shots out of some Lavazza; at which point
the pump decided to crap out.
So, undeterred, I purchased a used coffee gaggia coffee this morning.
I was completely excited, as I've heard nothing but good of the
gaggia name. The 964 pulled such great shots I figured a gaggia could
only do better.
Boy was I wrong on that one. I've spent all day dorking with this
cursed machine, and all I get is sour and bitter. I had maybe two

First of all, the people who've been telling you that the Krups 964
has a pressurized portafilter are wrong - it doesn't. I know - I've
got a 964 in the basement.

Any chance you want to get rid of it? :-)

Post by Seth Goodman
As for your thermostat - have you let the machine warm up for twenty
minutes before testing? The 964 has a thermoblock, and is ready to use
a lot faster than the Gaggia, which has a boiler. If you are letting
the machine warm twenty minutes, and it's still testing at 80 degrees
C., then it sounds like the brew thermostat is defective - and you
*can't* recalibrate it, as Dave B pointed out. (My Gaggia tests at 201
degrees F., for a reference point.)

The thermostat is definitely in err. Spent about 6 or 8 hours screwing
with the machine yesterday; it was SURELY warmed up. Backing the
thermostat out did raise the temperature to just around perfect and I
understand you "can't" recalibrate it, but I did and it will suffice until
I find a fair price on a new switch. It's right around 94/95 when the
switch kicks off. I refuse to pay $20 to have $3 dollar part shipped to my
door, but I'll look around at the parts suppliers mentioned in a prior
reply and below...

Post by Seth Goodman
1) Replace your thermostat with a new one. Here's WLL's instructions
on thermostat replacement (and they'll also sell you a new
thermostat): http://www.wholelattelove.com/articles.cfm?articleID=59
2) Hit the steam switch for a short time before pulling a shot. This
will boost the boiler temperature above what the brew thermostat is
set for. Try different amounts of time, perhaps in five second
increments, until the coffee tastes right.

I had that same thought, and tried that for a bit, but it's not very
consistant. Backing out the thermoswitch, so far, has worked fine. I
don't intend it to be a permanant fix, but it works great for now...


Thanks for the advice!

-Matt

[Ian Smith]

Post by Seth Goodman
1) Replace your thermostat with a new one.
2) Hit the steam switch for a short time before pulling a shot.

3) PID it. I ran a PIDed thermoblock Krups for quite a long time, and
it actually made pretty good coffee. This could be regarded as a
subset of 1).

regards, Ian SMith

[matthew j henschel]

Post by Ian Smith

Post by Seth Goodman
1) Replace your thermostat with a new one.
2) Hit the steam switch for a short time before pulling a shot.

3) PID it. I ran a PIDed thermoblock Krups for quite a long time, and
it actually made pretty good coffee. This could be regarded as a
subset of 1).
regards, Ian SMith

Ya know, The 964 will most likely end up that route, since replacement
parts are tricky for it, and I've already got the circuit mapped out, AND
the IC board is a lot easier to get too then it is on the Gaggia. Do you
have any pics or details as to what you did to it? Or a pointer to some
basic references?

That's likely where I'll go with it. I think it needs an integrated web
server too. :-P

-Matt

[Ian Smith]

Post by matthew j henschel

Post by Ian Smith
3) PID it. I ran a PIDed thermoblock Krups for quite a long time, and
it actually made pretty good coffee. This could be regarded as a
subset of 1).

Ya know, The 964 will most likely end up that route, since replacement
parts are tricky for it, and I've already got the circuit mapped out, AND
the IC board is a lot easier to get too then it is on the Gaggia. Do you
have any pics or details as to what you did to it? Or a pointer to some
basic references?

Not really. I used an external project box with both PID unit and SSR
in it. Power fed from some of the spare spades on the circuit board
(I forget what model mine was, but it had some spare spades). and I
drilled a hole in the side to route wires in and out. The heater
element is blatantly obvious on the bottom of the thermoblock. I
stuck the thermocouple on the top of the thermoblock with sticky tape
(high temperature thermocouple-mounting sticky tape).

regards, Ian SMith

[matthew j henschel]

Post by Ian Smith

Post by matthew j henschel
Ya know, The 964 will most likely end up that route, since
replacement parts are tricky for it, and I've already got the
circuit mapped out, AND the IC board is a lot easier to get too then
it is on the Gaggia. Do you have any pics or details as to what you
did to it? Or a pointer to some basic references?

Not really. I used an external project box with both PID unit and SSR
in it. Power fed from some of the spare spades on the circuit board
(I forget what model mine was, but it had some spare spades). and I
drilled a hole in the side to route wires in and out. The heater
element is blatantly obvious on the bottom of the thermoblock. I
stuck the thermocouple on the top of the thermoblock with sticky tape
(high temperature thermocouple-mounting sticky tape).
regards, Ian SMith

Doesn't the SSR end up carrying the current of the heater element? I
imagine it needs to be a fairly beefy relay, no?

[Ian Smith]

Post by matthew j henschel
Doesn't the SSR end up carrying the current of the heater element? I
imagine it needs to be a fairly beefy relay, no?

It does. It does. You want a solid state relay, not a mechanical
one. I used a 25A, which I considered adequate ;-). They come up on
ebay reasonably often.

Just in case he pops up here, bear in mind that a SSR rated 10A @ 240V
will not handle 20A @ 120V (there's been someone making this claim in
an attempt to shift a lower-spec SSR).

Also bear in mind that an SSR achieves its rated performance ONLY when
it's on a monster heatsink - I have one such, the heatsink is a mass
of aluminium vanes forming a cube about 8" on a side and weighing 3lb,
with the SSR in the middle. You probably don't want this alongside
your coffee machine.

Also, for rapid switching heater loads, some manufacturers recommend
de-rating an SSR to 70% or so of nominal rating.

By the time you've done all that, at 110V, you probably do want a 25A
or so SSR. If you do go the ebay route, make sure your PID has a
suitable SSR output (5V DC is commonly used), and your SSR is one that
is happy with that signal (anything 3-32V is a common rating for
SSR input, but you can get SSRs that want much higher voltages to
control them).

regards, Ian SMith

[Ferret]

Post by matthew j henschel
Boy was I wrong on that one. I've spent all day dorking with this
cursed machine, and all I get is sour and bitter. I had maybe two that
were bareable, but not even close to what the 964 pulled. Honestly,
it's not much better then my delonghi steam toy.

You are now finding out the downside of getting a significantly better
machine. It won't be forgiving of stale coffee, it won't be forgiving of
coffee ground too fine or too coarse, and it won't be forgiving of lack
of temperature control on your part. If you check back posts on this
group, you'll probably see that a lot of us consider the grinder almost
more important than the espresso machine. That's because with the right
teqnique, and fresh beans, good espresso can be gotten out of almost any
espresso machine of reasonable quality. On the other hand, without a
proper grinder, even a La Marzocco will produce coffee that's no more
drinkable than roofing tar. It doesn't much matter what brand it is or
how it's packaged, preground=stale. See if there is a local source of
beans that roasts their own, contact a seller who can ship fresh roasted
beans, or roast your own. Lavazza, even whole bean you grind yourself,
is not going to be fresh. Neither is Starbucks or Carribou. You might
get better results with the latter only because there is less oxidation
of the essential flavor components of the coffee, but you can do better.

[matthew j henschel]

Post by matthew j henschel
Boy was I wrong on that one. I've spent all day dorking with this
cursed machine, and all I get is sour and bitter. I had maybe two that
were bareable, but not even close to what the 964 pulled. Honestly,
it's not much better then my delonghi steam toy.

YEEEEEEEECH. Just pulled the boiler apart. GROSS. F!@#ing disguisting
is more like it.

There is a reason aluminum oxide is not a flavor enhancer.

Musta been a teaspoon or more foating around in there.

I repeat, YEEEEEEEEECH.


I spooned out the flakes and scrubbed the hell out of the thing, then
scrubbed it more, then squeezed a few limes and lemons into it, let it
sit, scrubbed more, soaked it again, blew it out with the air
compresser, scraped it, soaked it, scrubbed it, then repeated the whole
process. There is still some oxide in a few spots, and about 20 percent
of it is pitted up pretty good.

It now pulls a very drinkable shot, but I'm sure it could be better.
What's the best way to etch the boiler out? Would straight citric acid
be strong enough even? And then, once I do get it shiney, how to keep
it that way?

A 17 second 14 gram lavazza shot is now bareable straight. I can't
believe I was drinking that foul stuff before. Nothing was floating
around in the shots, but man I'm sure I got my months worth of aluminum.

YEEEEEEEEEECh.

Anyway I've had 4 or 5 shots and probably shouldn't be near a keyboard.

Thanks for the advice everyone.

-MAaaaaaaaaaaTtt

[Danny]

Post by matthew j henschel

Post by matthew j henschel
Boy was I wrong on that one. I've spent all day dorking with this
cursed machine, and all I get is sour and bitter. I had maybe two

that

Post by matthew j henschel
were bareable, but not even close to what the 964 pulled. Honestly,
it's not much better then my delonghi steam toy.

is more like it.
There is a reason aluminum oxide is not a flavor enhancer.
Musta been a teaspoon or more foating around in there.
I repeat, YEEEEEEEEECH.
I spooned out the flakes and scrubbed the hell out of the thing, then
scrubbed it more, then squeezed a few limes and lemons into it, let it
sit, scrubbed more, soaked it again, blew it out with the air
compresser, scraped it, soaked it, scrubbed it, then repeated the whole
process. There is still some oxide in a few spots, and about 20 percent
of it is pitted up pretty good.
It now pulls a very drinkable shot, but I'm sure it could be better.
What's the best way to etch the boiler out? Would straight citric acid
be strong enough even? And then, once I do get it shiney, how to keep
it that way?
A 17 second 14 gram lavazza shot is now bareable straight. I can't
believe I was drinking that foul stuff before. Nothing was floating
around in the shots, but man I'm sure I got my months worth of aluminum.
YEEEEEEEEEECh.
Anyway I've had 4 or 5 shots and probably shouldn't be near a keyboard.
Thanks for the advice everyone.
-MAaaaaaaaaaaTtt

17 seconds? Try a notch finer on the grind and aim for a little more
extraction time (from when the brew switch is pressed).

Moka pots have usually been made of aluminium with little dterimental
effect on the output over many years' useage. OK, not a pressure
vessel, but it sounds like your Gaggia has had a hard life.