Cunill Tranquillo not grinding fine enough

[karifly]

I can not seem to get my tranquillo to grind fine enough, especially
since I took it apart to clean it. I took the grinding mechanism
completely apart to clean the grind chamber & sweep the residue from
the burrs. Now it will only grind to a consistency of Salt/Sugar,
maybe even a bit coarser than either of those. I can tell when I try to
get it finer that the blades start to touch, so I have to back off to a
coarser setting. I can no longer get anything even close to a thick
shot from my Gaggia, they are all thin & watery. I did get pretty good
shots from a pretty fine setting (finer than I expected it to have to
be) for about a month before I cleaned it, but now I wonder if the
blades were touching during that time & I just didn't realize it?
Maybe I dulled them accidentally this way? Has anyone else had this
problem, maybe I reassembled it wrong, but it seems so simple, I can't
figure out what I could have done. If the blades are nearly touching,
it should be coming out like turkish powder, not sugar, and be way to
fine for a proper shot, right?
I'm very new at this, so any help is appreciated.
Kari

[Danny]

Post by karifly
I can not seem to get my tranquillo to grind fine enough, especially
since I took it apart to clean it. I took the grinding mechanism
completely apart to clean the grind chamber & sweep the residue from
the burrs. Now it will only grind to a consistency of Salt/Sugar,
maybe even a bit coarser than either of those. I can tell when I try to
get it finer that the blades start to touch, so I have to back off to a
coarser setting. I can no longer get anything even close to a thick
shot from my Gaggia, they are all thin & watery. I did get pretty good
shots from a pretty fine setting (finer than I expected it to have to
be) for about a month before I cleaned it, but now I wonder if the
blades were touching during that time & I just didn't realize it?
Maybe I dulled them accidentally this way? Has anyone else had this
problem, maybe I reassembled it wrong, but it seems so simple, I can't
figure out what I could have done. If the blades are nearly touching,
it should be coming out like turkish powder, not sugar, and be way to
fine for a proper shot, right?
I'm very new at this, so any help is appreciated.
Kari

I don't know how the Tranquilo burrs mount, but are they able to be
mounted at an angle by mistake, or cross threaded on the carrier, so
that they are not parallel, and can therefore touch on one side whilst
the other side has a wider gap. The noise you hear may be screws or
other parts touching, rather than the burrs themselves. If you remove
the hopper you should be able to see the burrs touch when adjusted
(power cord removed).

[Bill (Adopt)]

Post by karifly
I can not seem to get my tranquillo to grind fine enough, especially
since I took it apart to clean it. I took the grinding mechanism
completely apart to clean the grind chamber & sweep the residue from
the burrs.
be) for about a month before I cleaned it, but now I wonder if the
blades were touching during that time & I just didn't realize it?
Maybe I dulled them accidentally this way?

<aside>
You will have noticed any major damage when you
cleaned them ..if you didn't see anything, then
hopefully 'dulling' is not the problem. The
plates are manufactured from especially hardened
(finely tempered) stainless steel, are big and
quite robust. (They're also quite cheap and easy
to replace if or when needed - and easy to find
as well.. semms like most suppliers have them
in stock). However...

Post by karifly
Has anyone else had this
problem, maybe I reassembled it wrong, but it seems so simple, I can't
figure out what I could have done. If the blades are nearly touching,
it should be coming out like turkish powder, not sugar, and be way to
fine for a proper shot, right?

Top of the head comment, but it almost sounds as if
the top mounting - the one holding the upper grinding
plate, has somehow crossthreaded itself when you screwed
it back in..? I almost did this, but stopped just in
time as the re-mounting didn't 'feel quite right'.
Backed off, gently re-introduced - and all was well...

Of course, it may also be something that has dropped
in - or was hiding - as you screwed the mounting back
together..

Try unscrewing the mounting again - (removing any beans
in and/or the hopper, of course). Remember, there will
be beans stuck in the neck of the grinder ..and around
the top grinding plate.. although you will already have
seen this first time around - but it may be that there
is still something stuck..

Give it all another brush out - the scraping that you
presently hearing may not be the steel grinding plates
touching, but something as simple as a tiny bit of
stone that has dropped in from amongst the new beans.
It might even be a bit of debris hiding in an odd corner
and missed first time around..

Gently re-introduce the whole top platter back to the
neck of the grinder and /very gently/ start screwing it
back in ..be very gentle just in case the fine screw
threads sort of slip a little at first..

Don't 'force' the platter or you won't feel if it is
crossthreading. Then, once started, every turn or so,
unscrew a quarter turn and then continue.. just to check,
by feel, that it is seating correctly. In time it'll all
be second nature, but don't assume anything at first
..gentle care at every stage.. :))

Screw right down until the grinding plates touch - the
platten will not screw 'in' further. Back of a way
until either the plates are well clear - or until you
have reached the Espresso Mark (in Tippex?!) that you
remembered to make clear before you dismantled the
grinder in the first place... ;))

(..and if you didn't 'mark' your best position, do
it once you get things back the way you like them
and before you dismantle the grinder for the next
easy clean - so you at least have a start mark.
I was lucky - an engineer did this for me before with
my CT-1, long before I'd even thought of it)!

Remember: (even when set up again) ..although it may
be OK to move from a fine to a coarser grind - ie anti
clockwise with the knurled adjustment wheel, it is
/not/ 'OK' to adjust a coarse to a finer grind without
running the motor while you turned the knurled wheel
clockwise...

ie if you are turning the knurled adjustment wheel from,
let say, cafietere to espresso or turkish, then the
motor should be running whilst you do this..

..this, I gather from the aforementioned engineer, is
so that you can 'hear' the plates, or some unwanted
foreign body touching before you knacker the grinder
plates completely. You can back off, stop and look
before damage occurs! (I gather it's also quite
difficult for even the powerful motor of a Cunill
to even start up if a hard coffee bean is jammed into
the plates before first switch-on after a regular
clean-out).

hope helps ..and good luck :))

Bill ZFC

[karifly]

Thank you!
I think the problem was actually in the thread collar itself... I may
not have been as careful as I could have been when I screwed in the
screws that hold the collar in place. I realize if the screws were
tightened unevenly, the collar could be angled slightly or jiggle a bit
which means the burr plate, when screwed into the collar would also be
slightly uneven or jiggly.

It seems to be working much better now. Thanks for the advice on
turning on the motor while adjusting it finer, I had no idea. I had
been adjusting it with the motor on so I could hear it while
troubleshooting, but was worried that this was the wrong thing to do.
(intuitively it seemed like a good idea, so I did it... but intuition
can be quite wrong sometimes.)

Sometimes in the past, the beans have just quit grinding completely as
I adjust it finer. They just sort of hop around and don't go through &
the noise coming from the grinder is slightly different. To get it
going again, I have to adjust it to a coarse grind until it starts
grinding, then work my way up slowly to fine again. I don't know if
this is because of my previous collar problem, or something else... any
idea why this happens? Is this the "choking" that is referred to when
you grind too fine? It sometimes happens on a setting that has been
grinding well, then it suddenly stops working for no apparent reason.
Thanks again!
Kari

Post by Bill (Adopt)

Post by karifly
I can not seem to get my tranquillo to grind fine enough, especially
since I took it apart to clean it. I took the grinding mechanism
completely apart to clean the grind chamber & sweep the residue from
the burrs.
be) for about a month before I cleaned it, but now I wonder if the
blades were touching during that time & I just didn't realize it?
Maybe I dulled them accidentally this way?

<aside>
You will have noticed any major damage when you
cleaned them ..if you didn't see anything, then
hopefully 'dulling' is not the problem. The
plates are manufactured from especially hardened
(finely tempered) stainless steel, are big and
quite robust. (They're also quite cheap and easy
to replace if or when needed - and easy to find
as well.. semms like most suppliers have them
in stock). However...

Post by karifly
Has anyone else had this
problem, maybe I reassembled it wrong, but it seems so simple, I can't
figure out what I could have done. If the blades are nearly touching,
it should be coming out like turkish powder, not sugar, and be way to
fine for a proper shot, right?

Top of the head comment, but it almost sounds as if
the top mounting - the one holding the upper grinding
plate, has somehow crossthreaded itself when you screwed
it back in..? I almost did this, but stopped just in
time as the re-mounting didn't 'feel quite right'.
Backed off, gently re-introduced - and all was well...
Of course, it may also be something that has dropped
in - or was hiding - as you screwed the mounting back
together..
Try unscrewing the mounting again - (removing any beans
in and/or the hopper, of course). Remember, there will
be beans stuck in the neck of the grinder ..and around
the top grinding plate.. although you will already have
seen this first time around - but it may be that there
is still something stuck..
Give it all another brush out - the scraping that you
presently hearing may not be the steel grinding plates
touching, but something as simple as a tiny bit of
stone that has dropped in from amongst the new beans.
It might even be a bit of debris hiding in an odd corner
and missed first time around..
Gently re-introduce the whole top platter back to the
neck of the grinder and /very gently/ start screwing it
back in ..be very gentle just in case the fine screw
threads sort of slip a little at first..
Don't 'force' the platter or you won't feel if it is
crossthreading. Then, once started, every turn or so,
unscrew a quarter turn and then continue.. just to check,
by feel, that it is seating correctly. In time it'll all
be second nature, but don't assume anything at first
..gentle care at every stage.. :))
Screw right down until the grinding plates touch - the
platten will not screw 'in' further. Back of a way
until either the plates are well clear - or until you
have reached the Espresso Mark (in Tippex?!) that you
remembered to make clear before you dismantled the
grinder in the first place... ;))
(..and if you didn't 'mark' your best position, do
it once you get things back the way you like them
and before you dismantle the grinder for the next
easy clean - so you at least have a start mark.
I was lucky - an engineer did this for me before with
my CT-1, long before I'd even thought of it)!
Remember: (even when set up again) ..although it may
be OK to move from a fine to a coarser grind - ie anti
clockwise with the knurled adjustment wheel, it is
/not/ 'OK' to adjust a coarse to a finer grind without
running the motor while you turned the knurled wheel
clockwise...
ie if you are turning the knurled adjustment wheel from,
let say, cafietere to espresso or turkish, then the
motor should be running whilst you do this..
..this, I gather from the aforementioned engineer, is
so that you can 'hear' the plates, or some unwanted
foreign body touching before you knacker the grinder
plates completely. You can back off, stop and look
before damage occurs! (I gather it's also quite
difficult for even the powerful motor of a Cunill
to even start up if a hard coffee bean is jammed into
the plates before first switch-on after a regular
clean-out).
hope helps ..and good luck :))
Bill ZFC
--
Adoption InterLink UK with -=- http://www.billsimpson.com/
Domain Host Orpheus Internet -=- http://www.orpheusinternet.co.uk/

[Bill (Adopt)]

Post by karifly
Thank you!

A pleasure, Kari, even more so once the thing is
running just as you wish.. :))

Post by karifly
I think the problem was actually in the thread collar itself... I may
not have been as careful as I could have been when I screwed in the
screws that hold the collar in place. I realize if the screws were
tightened unevenly, the collar could be angled slightly or jiggle a bit
which means the burr plate, when screwed into the collar would also be
slightly uneven or jiggly.

mmm... not sure that I quite understand you ..or
perhaps our vocab isn't quite connecting..? The
neck, so far as I can see here, shouldn't actively
'wobble' on the top grinding plate ..that's
held by the rest of the surrounding internal
solid metal mount...??

You might like to have a look at the info on the
SRE website. The opening page below has details,
(together with a Cunill grinder first aid kit from
which you can identify oher bits that may be of
interest if you ever need them).

http://www.sreweb.com/grinder.htm

From the above page you can access an English
version of the generic Cunill Manual; it's in
jpeg format and, if using dialup, might take a
while to download. I'm not sure if it's just
big bytes ..or more likely just a slow server.

The Cunill generic manual,(or Manuel!), may be
also directly accessed from:

http://www.sreweb.com/manuel.htm

From this you will 'see' that two screws hold
the neck in place - the hopper screws into this
neck. The neck, so far as I can see physically
here, has no real bearing - weight or substance
- on the actual top grinding plate ..it's merely
part of the inlet shute that drops each bean to
it's date with destiny!

The diagrammatic piccies that are part of the
manual are worth more than a thousand words
each - but in case you can't get them, then a
few more words that might be additional help.

(Do what Danny says and remove the mains lead
first or you might end up nursing the ground
down stub ends of a few missing fingers. I
guess it's difficult to pick your nose with
a knuckle)!

The part that can become accidentally cross-
threaded is the big platten knurled wheel that
you use to adjust the grind. The 'thread' of
this adjustment is, for such a big beast, very
fine ..it needs this fineness for the many small
adjustment steps that are within the ability of
the Cunill grinders.

To remove this large knurled wheel, which is
integral with the complete solid metal mounting
carrying the top grinding plate, you will need
to unscrew the knurled wheel anti clockwise --
ie to the coarser grind setting.

Don't stop ..just keep on gently unscrewing this
large knurled wheel until the whole mounting lifts
clear from the main grinder body.

You will need to depress the spring indent button
to allow the whole carrier to be unscrewed. Take
care - under the indent button there is a little
spring that will ping out and lose itself somewhere
between your floor and your ceiling - or end up in
the cat.

You will then have full and clear access to both
grinding plates, top and bottom ..the motor, the
chutes etc etc. You shouldn't need to dismantle
any further than this - unless you are replacing
the motor et al.

To replace the knurled wheel - (watch the spring
indent in case it unsprings!) - re-introduce the
whole carrier with gentle care so that it doesn't
cross-thread again. You might have to try several
times before it 'takes', such is the fineness of
the thread. It's a pretty heavy and solid piece
..not dissimilar to the Rancilio Rocky, I guess..

Post by karifly
It seems to be working much better now.

Hopefully will continue..


[..]

Post by karifly
troubleshooting, but was worried that this was the wrong thing to do.
(intuitively it seemed like a good idea, so I did it... but intuition
can be quite wrong sometimes.)

<Three Mile Island>
Too late they realised; this wasn't the switch
for the espresso...
</Three Mile Island>

[..]

Post by karifly
idea why this happens? Is this the "choking" that is referred to when
you grind too fine? It sometimes happens on a setting that has been
grinding well, then it suddenly stops working for no apparent reason.

Not too sure, Kari ..but it does sound as if you are
attempting to grind so finely that the thing is choking.
It shouldn't choke once the motor is running ..that's
quite a powerful motor.. Backing off to a slightly
coarser setting and then moving up to finer grind again,
sounds like the correct thing to do, though. :)) Far
better than trying to scrunch a bit of hand-grenade,
or a chunk of bomb shrapnel that's hiding amongst the
beans... ;))

If you are getting a lot of dust - or sediment in your
coffee - then it might be that your grinding plates,
(the 'burrs'), need replacing ..ie that your original
thoughts about them having been accidentally dulled may
be correct.

However, the grinding plates are very strong and should
be rated to grind up to at least 600/800kg to a tonne
(2000lb+) - of bean before replacement, so it's useful
to make sure that everything else has been correctly
re-assembled before you consider buying new plates.

(Grinding plates ('burrs') are reasonably inexpensive
and are readily available from many suppliers).

Hope all this helps a little more... :))

Bill ZFC
e&oe!