Rumor: Gaggia going to manufacture in China

[Yiqin]

Talked with a local espresso machine dealer friend today. I was told that
one of the main espresso machine dealers in China is going to setup a
factory with Gaggia. My friend told me that the factory will import parts
and assamble semi-automatic models for Gaggia here in China.

Yiqin

[Coffee for Connoisseurs]

Would not be surprised. Saeco, the ultimate owner of Gaggia, have themselves
just been sold, apparently to a "French Consortium"... Groupe Seb, anyone?
Sunbeam and Breville machines sold locally are all made in China, although
"designed in Italy" features prominently in the advertising.

[JR]

Post by Coffee for Connoisseurs
Would not be surprised. Saeco, the ultimate owner of Gaggia, have themselves
just been sold, apparently to a "French Consortium"... Groupe Seb, anyone?
Sunbeam and Breville machines sold locally are all made in China, although
"designed in Italy" features prominently in the advertising.

The real surprise is that it has taken this long for somebody to start
an assembly operation in the PRC. Everything else is assembled in
China, and espresso machines are far less demanding than some of the
consumer electronic equipment produced on the mainland.

I wonder how long parts will be imported? There are a lot of local
producers in China who could knock out basic components like boilers,
heating elements, sheet metal or circuit boards. I would guess that
the small size of the market for espresso equipment is the main thing
that has kept Chinese companies out of the business so far.

JR

[Paul Pratt]

Post by JR

Post by Coffee for Connoisseurs
Would not be surprised. Saeco, the ultimate owner of Gaggia, have themselves
just been sold, apparently to a "French Consortium"... Groupe Seb, anyone?
Sunbeam and Breville machines sold locally are all made in China, although
"designed in Italy" features prominently in the advertising.

The real surprise is that it has taken this long for somebody to start
an assembly operation in the PRC. Everything else is assembled in
China, and espresso machines are far less demanding than some of the
consumer electronic equipment produced on the mainland.
I wonder how long parts will be imported? There are a lot of local
producers in China who could knock out basic components like boilers,
heating elements, sheet metal or circuit boards. I would guess that
the small size of the market for espresso equipment is the main thing
that has kept Chinese companies out of the business so far.
JR

This is weird, just 2 days ago I was making a point with friends about
the same topic.

I have two passions - coffee and watches. I somewhat jokingly
suggested the other day that coffee machines will soon go the way of
the watch industry and instead of having "swiss made" the machines
will soon have "made in italy" proudly displayed on the machine.

For those that don't know the watch industry is now regulated so that
a certain percentage of the manuf. must be done in switzerland. The
image that is portrayed in adverts and corporate propaganda is that
your mid-range watch is made by grey haired old swiss men, hunched
over watch benches making your US$1000-1500 watches by hand. The
reality is that a lot of the components are made in Asia (s.china,
Thailand) and then shipped back to Switzerland for final assembly.

A lot of people mock the products coming from China but what they
don't realise is that a lot of high quality products are made there.

I personally don't believe that the public is ready for an 100% Made
in China -unless it had some very unique features. What I think we
will get in the meantime is "made in italy" machines with a lot of
components made in Asia and then shipped back to Italy for assembly +
testing.

Regards,

Paul Pratt
JustJava Coffee Roasters
Hong Kong

[danny]

-snip-
A lot of people mock the products coming from China but what they
don't realise is that a lot of high quality products are made there.
I personally don't believe that the public is ready for an 100% Made
in China -unless it had some very unique features. What I think we
will get in the meantime is "made in italy" machines with a lot of
components made in Asia and then shipped back to Italy for assembly +
testing.

Going OT now - My piano tuner is a well respected chap - used to spend a couple of days a week in London tuning pianos for the famous
- Andre Previn etc, and the remainder in Portsmouth doing the poor locals. He used to sell a range of 2nd hand pianos but has given
up since the retail price of a new chinese grand piano is too close to the 2nd hand value of a "good" grand piano. He admits that
the chinese have become very good with pianos now, producing quality that will soon approach the germans - who make some of the
better pianos. He now recommends that customers with a limited budget by a chinese piano instead of his 2nd hand stock - not feint
praise when he's the one who has to tune and maintain the piano.


--
http://www.gaggia-espresso.com <my espresso page>
http://www.dannyscoffee.com <advert for mobile espresso bar>
http://www.malabargold.co.uk <online Malabar Gold ordering for europe>

swap z's in email address for the above

[Yiqin]

Paul,

I heard that there will be an exhibition for espresso machine tomorrow in
HK. maybe you can give us more news.

Yiqin

Post by Paul Pratt

Post by JR

Post by Coffee for Connoisseurs
Would not be surprised. Saeco, the ultimate owner of Gaggia, have themselves
just been sold, apparently to a "French Consortium"... Groupe Seb, anyone?
Sunbeam and Breville machines sold locally are all made in China, although
"designed in Italy" features prominently in the advertising.

The real surprise is that it has taken this long for somebody to start
an assembly operation in the PRC. Everything else is assembled in
China, and espresso machines are far less demanding than some of the
consumer electronic equipment produced on the mainland.
I wonder how long parts will be imported? There are a lot of local
producers in China who could knock out basic components like boilers,
heating elements, sheet metal or circuit boards. I would guess that
the small size of the market for espresso equipment is the main thing
that has kept Chinese companies out of the business so far.
JR

This is weird, just 2 days ago I was making a point with friends about
the same topic.
I have two passions - coffee and watches. I somewhat jokingly
suggested the other day that coffee machines will soon go the way of
the watch industry and instead of having "swiss made" the machines
will soon have "made in italy" proudly displayed on the machine.
For those that don't know the watch industry is now regulated so that
a certain percentage of the manuf. must be done in switzerland. The
image that is portrayed in adverts and corporate propaganda is that
your mid-range watch is made by grey haired old swiss men, hunched
over watch benches making your US$1000-1500 watches by hand. The
reality is that a lot of the components are made in Asia (s.china,
Thailand) and then shipped back to Switzerland for final assembly.
A lot of people mock the products coming from China but what they
don't realise is that a lot of high quality products are made there.
I personally don't believe that the public is ready for an 100% Made
in China -unless it had some very unique features. What I think we
will get in the meantime is "made in italy" machines with a lot of
components made in Asia and then shipped back to Italy for assembly +
testing.
Regards,
Paul Pratt
JustJava Coffee Roasters
Hong Kong

[Paul Pratt]

Post by Yiqin
Paul,
I heard that there will be an exhibition for espresso machine tomorrow in
HK. maybe you can give us more news.
Yiqin

There is a food exhibition starting today, it has one or two coffee
companies but generally 99% of it is irrelevant to coffee folks. There
is one company I am interested to see. Will post the details soon.

In HK we now have a new entrant into the exhibition market, called
Restaurant and Bar. It is a lot more specific and does attract a lot
more coffee companies, such as me.

Paul

[Jack Denver]

IIRC most of the Kitchenaid Proline appliances ($400 toaster, etc.) are
Made in China and Williams Sonoma (high end kitchenware dealer) has no
problem in peddling them. And of course a large percentage of autodrips
(along with just about every other appliance - $300 Cuisinart food
processors, etc.) are Made in China. I don't think people are as anxious to
see the "Made in Italy" label on their espresso machine as they are to see
"Swiss Made" on their watch. Besides the difference in the target market and
the price ($3000 Rolex or Omega is a different ballgame that $300 espresso
machine) the Italian's own reputation for manufacturing is not as spotless
as the Swiss. if the popular imagination has the gnomelike Swiss watchmaker
at his bench, the Italian worker of the popular imagination has just gotten
back from an overly long lunch at which he has had quite a bit of Chianti.

Post by Paul Pratt
This is weird, just 2 days ago I was making a point with friends about
the same topic.
I have two passions - coffee and watches. I somewhat jokingly
suggested the other day that coffee machines will soon go the way of
the watch industry and instead of having "swiss made" the machines
will soon have "made in italy" proudly displayed on the machine.
For those that don't know the watch industry is now regulated so that
a certain percentage of the manuf. must be done in switzerland. The
image that is portrayed in adverts and corporate propaganda is that
your mid-range watch is made by grey haired old swiss men, hunched
over watch benches making your US$1000-1500 watches by hand. The
reality is that a lot of the components are made in Asia (s.china,
Thailand) and then shipped back to Switzerland for final assembly.
A lot of people mock the products coming from China but what they
don't realise is that a lot of high quality products are made there.
I personally don't believe that the public is ready for an 100% Made
in China -unless it had some very unique features. What I think we
will get in the meantime is "made in italy" machines with a lot of
components made in Asia and then shipped back to Italy for assembly +
testing.
Regards,
Paul Pratt
JustJava Coffee Roasters
Hong Kong

[Paul Pratt]

Post by Jack Denver
IIRC most of the Kitchenaid Proline appliances ($400 toaster, etc.) are
Made in China and Williams Sonoma (high end kitchenware dealer) has no
problem in peddling them. And of course a large percentage of autodrips
(along with just about every other appliance - $300 Cuisinart food
processors, etc.) are Made in China. I don't think people are as anxious to
see the "Made in Italy" label on their espresso machine as they are to see
"Swiss Made" on their watch. Besides the difference in the target market and
the price ($3000 Rolex or Omega is a different ballgame that $300 espresso
machine) the Italian's own reputation for manufacturing is not as spotless
as the Swiss. if the popular imagination has the gnomelike Swiss watchmaker
at his bench, the Italian worker of the popular imagination has just gotten
back from an overly long lunch at which he has had quite a bit of Chianti.

Hi Jack,

I was really referring to the 2,3, or 4 Gruppo commercial machines and
perhaps prosumer machines. Sure you can do a B2B search and find a
billion drip coffee makers, moka pots that are 100% declared made in
PRC.

Post by Jack Denver
the Italian's own reputation for manufacturing is not as spotless
as the Swiss.

Agreed 100%. One coffee company I have been talking to for some
info. for coffeegeek manufs. coffee equipment over here. When I asked
why it was not 100% Asian made, he said because his distributors still
wanted some "reassurance" that it was traditional and reliable.
Although they have the locally made components they still use these
components from Italy.

Incidently they told me that the only problems they have are with the
imported components! Think the recent threads on Isomac.

Post by Jack Denver
the Italian worker of the popular imagination has just gotten
back from an overly long lunch at which he has had quite a bit of Chianti.

That would explain a few things!


BR,

Paul

[Coffee for Connoisseurs]

I assume Paul is talking about Kedge in Taipei? http://www.kedgeklub.com . I
think that counts as manufacturing in China!

[Paul Pratt]

Post by Coffee for Connoisseurs
I assume Paul is talking about Kedge in Taipei? http://www.kedgeklub.com . I
think that counts as manufacturing in China!

Bingo!

I believe that Oz is their largest market Alan.

Paul

[Jack Denver]

Interesting machine with stainless boiler and a lot of electronics. This is
the kind of thing I would expect - a lot of the Italian manufacturers have
been asleep at the switch and are turning out the same machines that could
have been made in 1961. Does anyone know how well the Kedge's perform?

Post by Coffee for Connoisseurs
I assume Paul is talking about Kedge in Taipei? http://www.kedgeklub.com . I
think that counts as manufacturing in China!
--
Alan
www.coffeeco.com.au

[Paul Pratt]

Post by Jack Denver
Interesting machine with stainless boiler and a lot of electronics. This is
the kind of thing I would expect - a lot of the Italian manufacturers have
been asleep at the switch and are turning out the same machines that could
have been made in 1961. Does anyone know how well the Kedge's perform?

Yeah they seem to be pretty good. I used one a few days ago and am
taking some more detailed pics and pulling a few more shots today and
tomorrow. I have to say that the I was allowed a sneak peak at the
group but not allowed to take any photos. They seem to have gone of
on a tangent with the group (when I post the pics you will see) but
the shots seemed to be ok.

Some good electronic functions. I agree about the 1961 bit...and from
talking to the guys at Kedge they reailse this too, they realise their
biggest advantage is that they can implement and change designs
without having 100 years of company history/directors saying "if it
ain't broke don't fix it".



Paul

[Jack Denver]

This post might be inappropriate. Click to display it.

[D. Ross]

"Coffee for Connoisseurs" <***@coffeeco.com.au> wrote:

| Would not be surprised. Saeco, the ultimate owner of Gaggia, have themselves
| just been sold, apparently to a "French Consortium"... Groupe Seb, anyone?

That was my prediction when I first posted here that Saeco was up for grabs,
but it appears that they are being acquired by a European merchant bank
consortium called PAI Partners (Paribas Affaires Industrielles), specialists
in leveraged buyouts.

This probably means that Saeco will go on as usual from the management and
product standpoint, but with cash flow changing direction.

- David R.

--
http://www.demitasse.net