Discussion:
FE-AR's La Peppina - a longish review
(too old to reply)
jim schulman
2004-06-17 15:21:56 UTC
Permalink
THE BACKSTORY

Since trying the Elektra lever, I've been jonesing for a lever
machine. Not any old lever machine, but a spring lever machine. The
Pavoni shots I've had have been OK but forgettable, the Elektra's
shots were outstanding, not in their crema and body, but in the taste
they delivered with high quality blends (forget robusta blends, they
taste worse). Apparently, the lever action, with it's
smoother-than-rotary delivery, and declining pressure through the
pull, improves the clarity of the shot's flavor. The same
characteristics also reduce the crema, so it's not the ultimate in
espresso, but it may be the ultimate in coffee.

The problem was home lever machines overheat, including the Elektra,
and are only good for a few shots in a row, while commercial levers
are way too big for my kitchen. So how was I going to make my espresso
blend comparisons on a lever machine?

Enter Roger Barrett and his alluring tales of the La Peppina. This odd
little machine has no boiler, rather an enamel kettle that boils the
water sitting directly atop a cylinder with a spring lever that pushes
up. The compressed flow is valved into a side mounted group. I've
posted lots of pics and a shop drawing on abc.

This arrangement has lots of advantages. The pot can be refilled on
the fly, since there's no pressure, just a simple lid. Steam pressure
isn't required to fill the cylinder like on other lever machines,
gravity does the job, so the water temperature in the kettle can be
anywhere one wants.

The only problem is that the machine hasn't been made since about
1980. They still are found quite often on ebay and sell for around
$190 when in good condition. After missing out on two auctions, I took
the "buy it now" route, and for the aforesaid $190 plus $10 shipping
got a machine. I figured it would be a coin toss whether the thing
would even work, never mind work well.




THE MACHINE

Vince, the seller, is an honest man; and the machine is in mint
condition, inside and out. In fact it's in better shape than he
described. My heartfelt thanks to him. I was pulling shots within an
hour of it arriving via fed-ex.

This is not a commercial machine. The PF and group are chrome plated
aluminum and 49mm in size, the base and kettle lid are plastic, the
drip tray is tiny. It is however very well and simply built, and there
are no mickey-mouse features. Well, none except the second pressure
cooker lid with steam wand. This actually sort of works, similar to a
steam toy steamer, but is not going to bring any joy. However, I
didn't buy the machine for steaming, and the modified steamer lid
detracts from the machine's functionality as a shot puller.

The version I got is the earlier one, drawing 700 watts, as compared
to the later 1100 watt one. It got to a boil in 5 minutes, so this is
not a problem. In fact, it is probably preferable (when not steaming),
since there is no control of any sort and the heat runs at full power.
With the bigger heater, the water would just boil more furiously.

The lever arrangement is decidedly odd. It looks like the handle on a
slot machine. In fact, the whole machine looks somewhat surreal, as if
Marcel Duchamp went to a junkyard, got an old steam pressure espresso
machine group, welded it to a enamelled tea kettle, and mounted it all
on a slot machine chassis. However, the operation is easy -- just pull
the lever down, cocking the spring, hold it for about 10 seconds, then
release to to get another 15 seconds or so of pull. The only trick is
that it's best to cock it to below the level of the machine itself, so
the machine should be pulled to the counter edge to let the lever
clear the edge when pulled down.

The draw on the lever is about a 1/2 ounce. This can be brought up to
just under 1 ounce by pumping slightly while the lever is down;
however, with the single basket's 8 gram capacity, the 1/2 ounce shot
makes for a perfect ristretto. My initial comparisons to the Tea were
promising. Like the Elektra, it produced less crema, but an improved
flavor for the all washed arabica blend I was trying. I got very nice
shots from the get go. Since I sincerely doubt I'm any sort of lever
prodigy, I'm guessing this is a fairly simple machine to use.




ITS PERFORMANCE

I have no way to measure the lever pressure, but I'm guessing it's in
the ballpark. This is because the machine requires a grind only a
shade coarser than the Tea, and well within commercial espresso range.
Varying the grind finer slows the shot and also reduces volume, why I
don't know. The volume change can be made up by pumping on the lever,
but getting good at this will require more practice. The best tasting
shots had an odd extraction profile -- 10 seconds of lever down
infusion, followed by a 15 second spring pull. Longer lasting pulls
resulted in a taste with the tell-tale overextraction taint -- an
instant coffee taste -- that I only get on the Tea if I really blow a
grind and go about 45 seconds.

There's a screw covering the drilled channel between the piston outlet
and the group. By removing the screw one can measure the water
temperature as it reaches the top of the puck (not while making shots
of course). With the water boiling this settled to a fairly steady
temperature betwen 99C and 99.3C

Inserting a TC into the PF and sealing with silver foil got me
consistent shot temperatures within shots between 97.0 and 98.5. These
temperatures repeated shot after shot with no change. Since I don't
have spare PFs or baskets, I can't set up a Schomer rig to measure
actual shot temps. However, the Schomer measure for the Tea closely
parallels this "tin-foil" measure, so I see no reason why it should be
inaccurate here. The exit temperature directly beneath the basket when
pulling shots was 92 to 92.5. These too remained stable shot after
shot.

While these temperatures are about 2.5C too high, they are quite
stable. They don't vary at all from shot to shot, and less than 2C
within a given shot. Not quite as steller as an E61, Cimbali or LM,
but well within commercial range, and far better than any machine
going for less than $700. The simple fact of the water in the kettle
not being replaced by cold water as the shot is drawn removes the
major cause of temperature instability in pump machines. The fact of
the lever not needing a pressurized boiler way above shot temperature
to fill it removes the major cause of instability in lever machines.
The La Peppina has superb temperature stability because it is too
primitive to be unstable; what a concept! The only source of
instability is the lightweight group, which probably accounts for the
1.5C within-shot variation.

The shot temperature can be brought down by the simple expedient of
pulling shots "off-boil", that is turning the machine off, waiting a
few minutes for the boiling to subside, then pulling the shot. This
brings all the temperatures down by 2C to 4C and maintains the same
within shot stability as before. Providing one turns the machine back
on to boil, then goes to off boil, for each shot, one can maintain
shot to shot stability.

The boil/off boil thing is a pita, and it suggests PIDing the machine
to get the temperatures one wants exactly and repeatably (a stem
thermometer through the lid would probably work too). Before reporting
on the PID results, a short note. Besides overheating, the
"portafilter sneeze" was thought to be a barrier to pulling multiple
shots fast on a home lever machine. This turns out not to be the case,
since there is a dodge: One can pull the lever down to depressurize
the PF, remove the PF immediately, and let the lever up -- carefully
-- to clean off the screen. In this way one can pull a shot every 90
seconds or so.




IS PID + GRAVITY LEVER THE ULTIMATE IN ESPRESSO MACHINE?

All this perfomance data suggests that a PID might make a nice
addendum to the machine. Since my roaster PID is built with plugs for
the power lines and TC, it was simple to plug the Peppina into it, run
a TC into the kettle, and retune the PID to keep the kettle at a
steady, user selected temperature. Until the versalab rudely
interrupted my thoughts, I had speculated that a PIDed, temperature
stable lever machine could be the ultimate shot puller. Now stay tuned
to find out if it could at least be the ultimate $400 shot puller.

After a long wait on tuning (enamelled steel holds temperature very
well), I set the control down to 97.5C and started pulling shots with
a foil stuffed PF. After warming up the PF with a couple of pulls, I
got between 95C and 95.5C pull after pull until the water ran low.
Yes! Close to Schomer territory with a little 1970s lever machine. I'm
puzzled about the better within-shot stability at this temperature
compared to the boiling temperature, and would appreciate suggestions.
My guess is that the still boiling water's variable release of steam
can affect the stability, while the 97.5C water is less prone to this.

OK, crunch time. How does the souped up Peppina fare against my
reigning kitchen champ, the Tea? No way I could do blind shot
comparisons, so you'll have to either trust or dismiss my biased
version. If there's enough interest, I may set up multi-person tests,
or comparisons to other machines. The whole Peppina/Pid setup weighs
about 15lbs and fits in a kit bag, so "have machine, will travel" is
quite feasible.

The Tea took the first round. The single La Peppina shots, at under
1/2 ounce, were too small to savor for taste, and didn't have the
crema or body of the Tea's. The Peppina took the second round. I
switched to the double basket and started pumping the lever for the
preinfuse until I could feel some backpressure (per Roger's advice).
This produced a 3/4 ounce shot from 12 grams, a little less
concentrated than the 1 1/4 ounce 20 gram shots from the Tea, but now,
to my utter surprise, with crema equal to the Tea's and a buttery
seductive mouthfeel that was actually better. The flavors were also a
hair better, less rough edges, and slightly better aromatics. I'd give
it maybe 3 to 4 points more out of 100 than my Tea shots. The third
round was a wash, the Tea's shot had better crema and aroma, the
Peppina's better mouthfeel and taste. I pulled this round into glass
cups, and posted the pics for a visual comparison.




CONCLUSION

Even PID'ed, the Peppina isn't the ultimate espresso machine. But in
terms of shot quality, it can hold it's own against most commercial
machines, even though it has an underweight, undersized group and an
operator with a total of 24 hours lever experience. For a $200 machine
with a jury rigged PID added, that's pretty impressive. As proof of
concept for this gravity fed lever design, it's even more impressive.
The lever pump provides a smoother extraction than the rotary, and the
sealed water path (no cold or overheated water entering) utterly
simplifies the control task. The super impressive Versalab machine
also uses a sealed water path and a new style, super smooth pump that
can operate in near boiling water. It's undoubtedly better than my La
Peppina rig, but it also costs 25 times as much. This test shows that
the design features that make it so good can be had at much lower cost
-- a Peppina style lever machine with a beefier group, more accurate
PID, and a well engineered spring or compressed air driven piston
could perhaps do it.
--
Jim

(***@ameritech.net)
btreichel
2004-06-17 16:50:59 UTC
Permalink
Interesting, I had been wondering about those.
Post by jim schulman
THE BACKSTORY
Since trying the Elektra lever, I've been jonesing for a lever
machine. Not any old lever machine, but a spring lever machine. The
Pavoni shots I've had have been OK but forgettable, the Elektra's
shots were outstanding, not in their crema and body, but in the taste
they delivered with high quality blends (forget robusta blends, they
taste worse). Apparently, the lever action, with it's
smoother-than-rotary delivery, and declining pressure through the
pull, improves the clarity of the shot's flavor. The same
characteristics also reduce the crema, so it's not the ultimate in
espresso, but it may be the ultimate in coffee.
The problem was home lever machines overheat, including the Elektra,
and are only good for a few shots in a row, while commercial levers
are way too big for my kitchen. So how was I going to make my espresso
blend comparisons on a lever machine?
Enter Roger Barrett and his alluring tales of the La Peppina. This odd
little machine has no boiler, rather an enamel kettle that boils the
water sitting directly atop a cylinder with a spring lever that pushes
up. The compressed flow is valved into a side mounted group. I've
posted lots of pics and a shop drawing on abc.
This arrangement has lots of advantages. The pot can be refilled on
the fly, since there's no pressure, just a simple lid. Steam pressure
isn't required to fill the cylinder like on other lever machines,
gravity does the job, so the water temperature in the kettle can be
anywhere one wants.
The only problem is that the machine hasn't been made since about
1980. They still are found quite often on ebay and sell for around
$190 when in good condition. After missing out on two auctions, I took
the "buy it now" route, and for the aforesaid $190 plus $10 shipping
got a machine. I figured it would be a coin toss whether the thing
would even work, never mind work well.
THE MACHINE
Vince, the seller, is an honest man; and the machine is in mint
condition, inside and out. In fact it's in better shape than he
described. My heartfelt thanks to him. I was pulling shots within an
hour of it arriving via fed-ex.
This is not a commercial machine. The PF and group are chrome plated
aluminum and 49mm in size, the base and kettle lid are plastic, the
drip tray is tiny. It is however very well and simply built, and there
are no mickey-mouse features. Well, none except the second pressure
cooker lid with steam wand. This actually sort of works, similar to a
steam toy steamer, but is not going to bring any joy. However, I
didn't buy the machine for steaming, and the modified steamer lid
detracts from the machine's functionality as a shot puller.
The version I got is the earlier one, drawing 700 watts, as compared
to the later 1100 watt one. It got to a boil in 5 minutes, so this is
not a problem. In fact, it is probably preferable (when not steaming),
since there is no control of any sort and the heat runs at full power.
With the bigger heater, the water would just boil more furiously.
The lever arrangement is decidedly odd. It looks like the handle on a
slot machine. In fact, the whole machine looks somewhat surreal, as if
Marcel Duchamp went to a junkyard, got an old steam pressure espresso
machine group, welded it to a enamelled tea kettle, and mounted it all
on a slot machine chassis. However, the operation is easy -- just pull
the lever down, cocking the spring, hold it for about 10 seconds, then
release to to get another 15 seconds or so of pull. The only trick is
that it's best to cock it to below the level of the machine itself, so
the machine should be pulled to the counter edge to let the lever
clear the edge when pulled down.
The draw on the lever is about a 1/2 ounce. This can be brought up to
just under 1 ounce by pumping slightly while the lever is down;
however, with the single basket's 8 gram capacity, the 1/2 ounce shot
makes for a perfect ristretto. My initial comparisons to the Tea were
promising. Like the Elektra, it produced less crema, but an improved
flavor for the all washed arabica blend I was trying. I got very nice
shots from the get go. Since I sincerely doubt I'm any sort of lever
prodigy, I'm guessing this is a fairly simple machine to use.
ITS PERFORMANCE
I have no way to measure the lever pressure, but I'm guessing it's in
the ballpark. This is because the machine requires a grind only a
shade coarser than the Tea, and well within commercial espresso range.
Varying the grind finer slows the shot and also reduces volume, why I
don't know. The volume change can be made up by pumping on the lever,
but getting good at this will require more practice. The best tasting
shots had an odd extraction profile -- 10 seconds of lever down
infusion, followed by a 15 second spring pull. Longer lasting pulls
resulted in a taste with the tell-tale overextraction taint -- an
instant coffee taste -- that I only get on the Tea if I really blow a
grind and go about 45 seconds.
There's a screw covering the drilled channel between the piston outlet
and the group. By removing the screw one can measure the water
temperature as it reaches the top of the puck (not while making shots
of course). With the water boiling this settled to a fairly steady
temperature betwen 99C and 99.3C
Inserting a TC into the PF and sealing with silver foil got me
consistent shot temperatures within shots between 97.0 and 98.5. These
temperatures repeated shot after shot with no change. Since I don't
have spare PFs or baskets, I can't set up a Schomer rig to measure
actual shot temps. However, the Schomer measure for the Tea closely
parallels this "tin-foil" measure, so I see no reason why it should be
inaccurate here. The exit temperature directly beneath the basket when
pulling shots was 92 to 92.5. These too remained stable shot after
shot.
While these temperatures are about 2.5C too high, they are quite
stable. They don't vary at all from shot to shot, and less than 2C
within a given shot. Not quite as steller as an E61, Cimbali or LM,
but well within commercial range, and far better than any machine
going for less than $700. The simple fact of the water in the kettle
not being replaced by cold water as the shot is drawn removes the
major cause of temperature instability in pump machines. The fact of
the lever not needing a pressurized boiler way above shot temperature
to fill it removes the major cause of instability in lever machines.
The La Peppina has superb temperature stability because it is too
primitive to be unstable; what a concept! The only source of
instability is the lightweight group, which probably accounts for the
1.5C within-shot variation.
The shot temperature can be brought down by the simple expedient of
pulling shots "off-boil", that is turning the machine off, waiting a
few minutes for the boiling to subside, then pulling the shot. This
brings all the temperatures down by 2C to 4C and maintains the same
within shot stability as before. Providing one turns the machine back
on to boil, then goes to off boil, for each shot, one can maintain
shot to shot stability.
The boil/off boil thing is a pita, and it suggests PIDing the machine
to get the temperatures one wants exactly and repeatably (a stem
thermometer through the lid would probably work too). Before reporting
on the PID results, a short note. Besides overheating, the
"portafilter sneeze" was thought to be a barrier to pulling multiple
shots fast on a home lever machine. This turns out not to be the case,
since there is a dodge: One can pull the lever down to depressurize
the PF, remove the PF immediately, and let the lever up -- carefully
-- to clean off the screen. In this way one can pull a shot every 90
seconds or so.
IS PID + GRAVITY LEVER THE ULTIMATE IN ESPRESSO MACHINE?
All this perfomance data suggests that a PID might make a nice
addendum to the machine. Since my roaster PID is built with plugs for
the power lines and TC, it was simple to plug the Peppina into it, run
a TC into the kettle, and retune the PID to keep the kettle at a
steady, user selected temperature. Until the versalab rudely
interrupted my thoughts, I had speculated that a PIDed, temperature
stable lever machine could be the ultimate shot puller. Now stay tuned
to find out if it could at least be the ultimate $400 shot puller.
After a long wait on tuning (enamelled steel holds temperature very
well), I set the control down to 97.5C and started pulling shots with
a foil stuffed PF. After warming up the PF with a couple of pulls, I
got between 95C and 95.5C pull after pull until the water ran low.
Yes! Close to Schomer territory with a little 1970s lever machine. I'm
puzzled about the better within-shot stability at this temperature
compared to the boiling temperature, and would appreciate suggestions.
My guess is that the still boiling water's variable release of steam
can affect the stability, while the 97.5C water is less prone to this.
OK, crunch time. How does the souped up Peppina fare against my
reigning kitchen champ, the Tea? No way I could do blind shot
comparisons, so you'll have to either trust or dismiss my biased
version. If there's enough interest, I may set up multi-person tests,
or comparisons to other machines. The whole Peppina/Pid setup weighs
about 15lbs and fits in a kit bag, so "have machine, will travel" is
quite feasible.
The Tea took the first round. The single La Peppina shots, at under
1/2 ounce, were too small to savor for taste, and didn't have the
crema or body of the Tea's. The Peppina took the second round. I
switched to the double basket and started pumping the lever for the
preinfuse until I could feel some backpressure (per Roger's advice).
This produced a 3/4 ounce shot from 12 grams, a little less
concentrated than the 1 1/4 ounce 20 gram shots from the Tea, but now,
to my utter surprise, with crema equal to the Tea's and a buttery
seductive mouthfeel that was actually better. The flavors were also a
hair better, less rough edges, and slightly better aromatics. I'd give
it maybe 3 to 4 points more out of 100 than my Tea shots. The third
round was a wash, the Tea's shot had better crema and aroma, the
Peppina's better mouthfeel and taste. I pulled this round into glass
cups, and posted the pics for a visual comparison.
CONCLUSION
Even PID'ed, the Peppina isn't the ultimate espresso machine. But in
terms of shot quality, it can hold it's own against most commercial
machines, even though it has an underweight, undersized group and an
operator with a total of 24 hours lever experience. For a $200 machine
with a jury rigged PID added, that's pretty impressive. As proof of
concept for this gravity fed lever design, it's even more impressive.
The lever pump provides a smoother extraction than the rotary, and the
sealed water path (no cold or overheated water entering) utterly
simplifies the control task. The super impressive Versalab machine
also uses a sealed water path and a new style, super smooth pump that
can operate in near boiling water. It's undoubtedly better than my La
Peppina rig, but it also costs 25 times as much. This test shows that
the design features that make it so good can be had at much lower cost
-- a Peppina style lever machine with a beefier group, more accurate
PID, and a well engineered spring or compressed air driven piston
could perhaps do it.
Donn Cave
2004-06-18 05:59:56 UTC
Permalink
Quoth btreichel <***@comcast.net>:
| Interesting, I had been wondering about those.

Number of machines made along these general lines, say 40 years ago.
Gaggia, La San Marco, Bambina, Caravelle, Zerowatt ... I'm really
just speculating based on pictures, but in most cases it's clearer
what's going on there than it is with La Peppina. It's the only
one I've seen with that steam gimmick, which has been a mystery to
me until today.

My Zerowatt works pretty well (240V, though). We don't use it all
the time, because for sort of incidental reasons the La Pavoni is
still the household favorite, but I use it once in a while and from
casual observation the temperature does seem to be more or less
stable, not like our La Pavoni. The group & portafilter are small.
The main problem is soupy pucks, to the extent that I have to pour
off water before scooping it out. Which I suppose could be a design
problem with the group. I have not noticed a portafilter sneeze
problem, but I work slow in general anyway.

Wonder how much it would cost to build a unit like that today
with a full sized commercial lever group? I think that could
be extremely cool, even if you have to bolt it to something to
hold it down while operating the lever. The perfect home machine
for discriminating espresso drinkers - comes up fast, draws as
many or as few shots as you want, makes no noise and is fun to use.
I think the old ones can be decent machines if the price is right,
though, and it sounds like La Peppina is a better than average
example.

Donn
btreichel
2004-06-18 15:52:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Donn Cave
Wonder how much it would cost to build a unit like that today
with a full sized commercial lever group? I think that could
be extremely cool, even if you have to bolt it to something to
hold it down while operating the lever. The perfect home machine
for discriminating espresso drinkers - comes up fast, draws as
many or as few shots as you want, makes no noise and is fun to use.
I think the old ones can be decent machines if the price is right,
though, and it sounds like La Peppina is a better than average
example.
Donn
Maybe we could get Owen to cobble one together. It seems like he has
enough parts.
Johnny Kent
2004-06-17 16:52:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by jim schulman
THE BACKSTORY
Since trying the Elektra lever, I've been jonesing for a lever
machine.
snip long and interesting description

Thanks for the tantalizing tale Jim.
Post by jim schulman
After a long wait on tuning (enamelled steel holds temperature very
well), I set the control down to 97.5C and started pulling shots with
a foil stuffed PF. After warming up the PF with a couple of pulls, I
got between 95C and 95.5C pull after pull until the water ran low.
Yes! Close to Schomer territory with a little 1970s lever machine. I'm
puzzled about the better within-shot stability at this temperature
compared to the boiling temperature, and would appreciate suggestions.
My guess is that the still boiling water's variable release of steam
can affect the stability, while the 97.5C water is less prone to this.
Could the long wait on tuning have given the whole machine a good even
preheat?
jim schulman
2004-06-17 17:42:33 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 09:52:11 -0700, "Johnny Kent"
Post by Johnny Kent
I'm
Post by jim schulman
puzzled about the better within-shot stability at this temperature
compared to the boiling temperature, and would appreciate suggestions.
My guess is that the still boiling water's variable release of steam
can affect the stability, while the 97.5C water is less prone to this.
Could the long wait on tuning have given the whole machine a good even
preheat?
Interesting idea, could be. But my impression was I had the machine on
a while before pulling the boil-shots, and did a lot of those in a row
with little or no change.
--
Jim

(***@ameritech.net)
jim schulman
2004-06-18 03:15:10 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 10:21:56 -0500, jim schulman
Post by jim schulman
Besides overheating, the
"portafilter sneeze" was thought to be a barrier to pulling multiple
shots fast on a home lever machine. This turns out not to be the case,
since there is a dodge: One can pull the lever down to depressurize
the PF, remove the PF immediately, and let the lever up -- carefully
-- to clean off the screen. In this way one can pull a shot every 90
seconds or so.
Um, this needs more work. It doesn't work at all if the shot stalls,
and poorly if one decides to pull the cup midshot when the stream goes
too blonde.
--
Jim

(***@ameritech.net)
Moka Java
2004-06-18 11:40:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by jim schulman
THE BACKSTORY
Since trying the Elektra lever, I've been jonesing for a lever
machine. Not any old lever machine, but a spring lever machine.
Have you considered the early 60's vintage Bezzera lever machines that
show up on Ebay now and again? IIRC they have a 2 or so liter boiler
and a p-stat. Or does the gravity feed have something to do with the
success of the la Peppina? Certainly speeds warm-up time.

Richard "the Versalab shots had CREMA!" F
--
Email to ***@fishyahoo.com and go fishing.
jim schulman
2004-06-18 19:50:54 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 07:40:32 -0400, Moka Java
Post by Moka Java
Or does the gravity feed have something to do with the
success of the la Peppina? Certainly speeds warm-up time.
This is something I don't get on lever pump machines. An old fasioned
well pump sucks the water in, then pumps it out, but the espresso
lever pumps don't suck, so mostly they are filled by steam pressure
pushing the water into the cyclinder. If the hot water isn't
pressurized and above 100C, there's no steam pressure. So most lever
machines require **too hot** water by design. On commercial levers,
you have a monster group, insulated from the boiler to shed the heat.
These groups are too big to fit on a counter.

The home lever models still being built (Pavoni, Elektra, Cimbali,
Gaggia, Ponte Vecchio, Olympia) all have sealed boilers to provide
good steaming. So they have small groups that overheat.

The Peppina and few other old machines had a kettle sitting over the
lever and the water simply flows into the cylinder when the lever is
cocked (the oldest Gaggia home lever didn't even have a kettle, one
just poured hot water into the lever group, then pumped it out for the
shot). This means shots can be made at any temperature whatsoever up
to boiling, depending on how hot the water in the kettle is. The PID
is way overkill, since the kettle holds heat well (takes about 1
minute to cool 1C at boiling); so I've ordered a digital stem
thermometer to measure the kettle temperature. The shot temperature
averages about 2.5C/4F below the kettle temperature
--
Jim

(***@ameritech.net)
Moka Java
2004-06-21 11:25:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by jim schulman
This is something I don't get on lever pump machines. An old fasioned
well pump sucks the water in, then pumps it out, but the espresso
lever pumps don't suck, so mostly they are filled by steam pressure
pushing the water into the cyclinder. If the hot water isn't
pressurized and above 100C, there's no steam pressure. So most lever
machines require **too hot** water by design. On commercial levers,
you have a monster group, insulated from the boiler to shed the heat.
These groups are too big to fit on a counter.
The home lever models still being built (Pavoni, Elektra, Cimbali,
Gaggia, Ponte Vecchio, Olympia) all have sealed boilers to provide
good steaming. So they have small groups that overheat.
The Bezzera I'm referring to is a small version of a commercial lever
machine. I wish I could find a picture on the web for you. Roger
prolly knows the machine and can rattle off all the variants.
Post by jim schulman
The Peppina and few other old machines had a kettle sitting over the
lever and the water simply flows into the cylinder when the lever is
cocked (the oldest Gaggia home lever didn't even have a kettle, one
just poured hot water into the lever group, then pumped it out for the
shot). This means shots can be made at any temperature whatsoever up
to boiling, depending on how hot the water in the kettle is. The PID
is way overkill, since the kettle holds heat well (takes about 1
minute to cool 1C at boiling); so I've ordered a digital stem
thermometer to measure the kettle temperature.
Gee, I could'a cut you a deal on my Extech.

The shot temperature
Post by jim schulman
averages about 2.5C/4F below the kettle temperature
Is that consistent or does it depend on environmental factors.

Richard "finding that environmental factors can really screw up temp.
measurement consistency" F
--
Email to ***@fishyahoo.com and go fishing.
jim schulman
2004-06-21 21:07:13 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 07:25:57 -0400, Moka Java
Post by jim schulman
The shot temperature
Post by jim schulman
averages about 2.5C/4F below the kettle temperature
Is that consistent or does it depend on environmental factors.
I haven't tried it outdoors, and I don't think I will ;-) If the
kettle is between 90C and 100C, the first shot from idle will be about
6C low, the second about 4C, and the third and on will very
comfortably stay within a window 2C to 3C below the kettle
temperature. Pumping 2 to 3 ounces through the group and PF eliminates
the initial "cold nose"
--
Jim

(***@ameritech.net)
Simpson
2004-06-19 02:15:18 UTC
Permalink
Jim, I can't view a single pic on abc... and I don't usually have
probs. They just don't decode.

Ted
jim schulman
2004-06-19 02:41:07 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 22:15:18 -0400, Simpson
Post by Simpson
Jim, I can't view a single pic on abc... and I don't usually have
probs. They just don't decode.
I accidently sent a set of headers out with no attachments, you'll
have to use your imagination with those ;) If the problem is with the
posts that do have headers, I'll repost.
--
Jim

(***@ameritech.net)
Johnny Kent
2004-06-19 03:33:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by jim schulman
On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 22:15:18 -0400, Simpson
Post by Simpson
Jim, I can't view a single pic on abc... and I don't usually have
probs. They just don't decode.
I accidently sent a set of headers out with no attachments, you'll
have to use your imagination with those ;) If the problem is with the
posts that do have headers, I'll repost.
--
Jim
All the latter ones(as well as the 1st from earlier) work just fine. 9 pics
in all...
Simpson
2004-06-19 23:57:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by jim schulman
On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 22:15:18 -0400, Simpson
Post by Simpson
Jim, I can't view a single pic on abc... and I don't usually have
probs. They just don't decode.
I accidently sent a set of headers out with no attachments, you'll
have to use your imagination with those ;) If the problem is with the
posts that do have headers, I'll repost.
I fear it is the ones that *should* work. I never seem to have
trouble with decoding and viewing pictures of coffee. Jill has a
'parental block' on anything else. 8^)

Ted
--
email me at:
tee en jay ess eye em pee ess oh en one-the-number (at) cee oh em cee
a ess tee (dot) en ee tee

ANY other email addie will probably mean I spam-killed your message
unread.
Seth Goodman
2004-06-19 03:53:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Simpson
Jim, I can't view a single pic on abc... and I don't usually have
probs. They just don't decode.
Gravity doesn't like the sequence numbers in Jim's post - it thinks it's
a multi-part of a single file. To work-around, use manual decode:

Highlight all Jim's pictures in the thread pane and type Ctrl-M

You'll get a window with all the files listed - don't worry about "Re-
ordering" - just click on "Decode".

All the pictures should download for you. If any problems, you can e-
mail me.
--
HTH,

Seth Goodman
jim schulman
2004-06-19 04:08:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Seth Goodman
Gravity doesn't like the sequence numbers in Jim's post - it thinks it's
Oops, didn't realize it worked like that -- I'll leave them out from
now on.
--
Jim

(***@ameritech.net)
Simpson
2004-06-20 00:04:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Seth Goodman
Post by Simpson
Jim, I can't view a single pic on abc... and I don't usually have
probs. They just don't decode.
Gravity doesn't like the sequence numbers in Jim's post - it thinks it's
Highlight all Jim's pictures in the thread pane and type Ctrl-M
You'll get a window with all the files listed - don't worry about "Re-
ordering" - just click on "Decode".
All the pictures should download for you. If any problems, you can e-
mail me.
Seth, you are amazing. One of the reasons why I don't quit using
Gravity is that I would hate to lose my Guardian Seth hovering around
and making it OK whenever I bobble.

It worked as you described. Cool. I'll remember that.

Now tell me how to add 'copy' and 'paste' to Gravity's right click
context menu and I'll REALLY be overjoyed!

Thanks!

Ted
--
email me at:
tee en jay ess eye em pee ess oh en one-the-number (at) cee oh em cee
a ess tee (dot) en ee tee

ANY other email addie will probably mean I spam-killed your message
unread.
Seth Goodman
2004-06-20 13:12:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Simpson
Now tell me how to add 'copy' and 'paste' to Gravity's right click
context menu and I'll REALLY be overjoyed!
What, specifically, are you trying to do?
--
Seth Goodman
Simpson
2004-06-21 02:36:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Seth Goodman
Post by Simpson
Now tell me how to add 'copy' and 'paste' to Gravity's right click
context menu and I'll REALLY be overjoyed!
What, specifically, are you trying to do?
Seth, in most apps (in windoze) if you click on an item such as a
file or folder in windoze explorer or a bit of text in word, say, and
click the right button a context menu pops up. While it has many
items on it that change based on the (wait for it) context, usually
'copy', 'cut' and 'paste' are present. Gravity is one of the rare
apps that do not include these choices on the context menu. Very
annoying.

Ted
--
email me at:
tee en jay ess eye em pee ess oh en one-the-number (at) cee oh em cee
a ess tee (dot) en ee tee

ANY other email addie will probably mean I spam-killed your message
unread.
Seth Goodman
2004-06-21 10:48:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Simpson
Seth, in most apps (in windoze) if you click on an item such as a
file or folder in windoze explorer or a bit of text in word, say, and
click the right button a context menu pops up. While it has many
items on it that change based on the (wait for it) context, usually
'copy', 'cut' and 'paste' are present. Gravity is one of the rare
apps that do not include these choices on the context menu. Very
annoying
"Copy" and "Select All" are available in the message pane from the
right-click menu - it's under the submenu "Edit" on the right-click
menu. In other words, right click, point your cursor at "Edit", and
"Copy" and "Select All" will "fly out". "Copy" will be grayed out if
you have not made a text selection.

In fact, the latest version of Gravity has "Repair URL" on the right-
click menu of the message pane. If a message has a multi-line URL, you
can highlight the URL, and select "Repair URL" from the context menu.
Gravity will re-assemble the URL into a single line, and send it to your
browser. Very handy.
--
HTH,

Seth Goodman
Simpson
2004-06-21 11:55:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Seth Goodman
Post by Simpson
Seth, in most apps (in windoze) if you click on an item such as a
file or folder in windoze explorer or a bit of text in word, say, and
click the right button a context menu pops up. While it has many
items on it that change based on the (wait for it) context, usually
'copy', 'cut' and 'paste' are present. Gravity is one of the rare
apps that do not include these choices on the context menu. Very
annoying
"Copy" and "Select All" are available in the message pane from the
right-click menu - it's under the submenu "Edit" on the right-click
menu. In other words, right click, point your cursor at "Edit", and
"Copy" and "Select All" will "fly out". "Copy" will be grayed out if
you have not made a text selection.
In fact, the latest version of Gravity has "Repair URL" on the right-
click menu of the message pane. If a message has a multi-line URL, you
can highlight the URL, and select "Repair URL" from the context menu.
Gravity will re-assemble the URL into a single line, and send it to your
browser. Very handy.
Very handy, Seth. Thanks. Still, a flawed interpretation of the
context menu concept. For instance, I copy s/t in the message pane
using the 'edit/copy' from right click, go to 'follow-up' from right
click and then try to paste using a right click. Nada, zip, zero. No
context menu at all.

Don't get me wrong. I love Gravity. I'm one of eight people who
actually paid for a copy.

8^)

I like it almost as well as I like Malabar Gold. LOOK! I'm back on-
topic. Sorta.

Ted
--
email me at:
tee en jay ess eye em pee ess oh en one-the-number (at) cee oh em cee
a ess tee (dot) en ee tee

ANY other email addie will probably mean I spam-killed your message
unread.
Dennis M Reed 'Califa'
2004-06-20 01:30:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by jim schulman
THE BACKSTORY
Since trying the Elektra lever, I've been jonesing for a lever
machine. ....
The only problem is that the machine hasn't been made since about
1980. They still are found quite often on ebay and sell for around
$190 when in good condition. After missing out on two auctions, I took
the "buy it now" route, and for the aforesaid $190 plus $10 shipping
got a machine. I figured it would be a coin toss whether the thing
would even work, never mind work well.
I think you might have been in too much of a hurry...I got a new or like-new
1100 watt Peppina from ebay for $76 + $20 shipping...and it works quite
well...but I need more experience with espresso making in general.
jim schulman
2004-06-20 02:19:32 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 18:30:06 -0700, "Dennis M Reed 'Califa'"
Post by Dennis M Reed 'Califa'
I think you might have been in too much of a hurry...I got a new or like-new
1100 watt Peppina from ebay for $76 + $20 shipping...and it works quite
well...but I need more experience with espresso making in general.
Yeah, I remember, I only bid up to $75 on it, since I wasn't at all
confident about its condition. If yours is working well, you got a
buy, since good ones have mostly been going for around $175 to $200.
--
Jim

(***@ameritech.net)
jim schulman
2004-06-21 01:40:30 UTC
Permalink
PART 2 - THE LEVER-OFF

I took the machine over to Joel's to compare to the Elektra. The
beauty pageant was no contest. While the Peppina's enamel pot, one
armed bandit design has it's charms I suppose; the Electra is a chrome
icon to espresso culture. On the other hand, the Peppina does make a
much more convenient travel machine, weighing in at around 12 pounds,
and fitting easily in a gym bag.

We pulled about 6 comparison shots of two different blends, taking a
break between blends. We also compared them to shots from Joel's
Expobar. The shots from the two levers were very similar, and with
what I've come to consider characteristic of spring lever machines --
less crema and body than motorized pump machines, but a cleaner taste
which is slightly sweeter, less bitter, and more defined for origin
flavors. I was more inconsistent with my Peppina pulls than Joel on
the Elektra; but my better shots were at the same level as Joel's.
Oddly, my better pulls on the Peppina had more crema than the
Elektra's, although still less than the Expobar.

The Peppina's handle has to be pumped to get the full ounce of water
into the cylinder, and this introduces some variablility to the shot
in terms of preinfusion and pressure timing. I got the best shots with
about 0.8 ounces from the 12 gram double basket dose, with about 10
seconds preinfusion and 15 seconds pressure time. Using a coarser
grind and firmer tamp worked better for me on this machine.

This test doesn't add much new, but confirms that it's the sprpng
lever design itself, rather than some peculiarity of the Elektra's
group, that is responsible for the shot taste differences when
compared to motor-pump machines.

My thanks to Joel, and especially his patient wife, Barbara, for
having me and my contraption over.
--
Jim

(***@ameritech.net)
David Lewis
2004-06-25 05:48:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by jim schulman
Apparently, the lever action, with it's
smoother-than-rotary delivery, and declining pressure through the
pull, improves the clarity of the shot's flavor.
How do you square this with the test you did with Ken Fox, indicating
no difference between vibe and rotary pumps if the former was properly
regulated? Surely there's much more difference between the pressure
profile of even a regulated vibe pump and a rotary than there is
between a rotary and a spring lever.

David
jim schulman
2004-06-25 06:08:31 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 05:48:06 GMT, David Lewis
Post by David Lewis
How do you square this with the test you did with Ken Fox, indicating
no difference between vibe and rotary pumps if the former was properly
regulated? Surely there's much more difference between the pressure
profile of even a regulated vibe pump and a rotary than there is
between a rotary and a spring lever.
I've posted my still somewhat half-baked ideas in a newer thread
"Pressure Games - Final Post (?)."

If my plumbing and electrical abilities improve enough, I may be able
to instrument the Tea and Peppina to produce shots with exactly the
same temperature and pressures.

Of course, if there's any sponsors out there, there's the Visacrem
Palanca, an HX/Lever machine which uses mains pressure to fill the
cylinder. That should be a bit more apples to apples since it has a
commercial sized group ;)
--
Jim

(***@ameritech.net)
Randy R
2004-06-25 15:25:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by jim schulman
Of course, if there's any sponsors out there, there's the Visacrem
Palanca, an HX/Lever machine which uses mains pressure to fill the
cylinder. That should be a bit more apples to apples since it has a
commercial sized group ;)
--
Jim
I think some kind of lever machine would make the ultimate espresso, if the
whole lever assembly was bolted to directly to the boiler or HX (or seperate
brew boiler,) because the water coming out of the lever group would be
unaffected by incomming cold water.

Randy R
JR
2004-06-28 05:15:46 UTC
Permalink
Wait a minute everybody. I seem to recall that about a month ago I
raised the idea of electronic temp control on a lever machine as a
possible approach to good espresso - and the idea was universally
rejected. Even Jim had some unkind things to say about it.

Maybe there is something to be said for empiricism?

JR
Post by Randy R
Post by jim schulman
Of course, if there's any sponsors out there, there's the Visacrem
Palanca, an HX/Lever machine which uses mains pressure to fill the
cylinder. That should be a bit more apples to apples since it has a
commercial sized group ;)
--
Jim
I think some kind of lever machine would make the ultimate espresso, if the
whole lever assembly was bolted to directly to the boiler or HX (or seperate
brew boiler,) because the water coming out of the lever group would be
unaffected by incomming cold water.
Randy R
jim schulman
2004-06-28 05:51:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by JR
Wait a minute everybody. I seem to recall that about a month ago I
raised the idea of electronic temp control on a lever machine as a
possible approach to good espresso - and the idea was universally
rejected. Even Jim had some unkind things to say about it.
If I did, I'm sorry - I've said a few times that a dual boiler lever
machine could be very good. The problem was always that commercial
lever machines are either fed by steam pressure or via mains pressure
through an HX, neither of which makes for precisely controllable
temperature. The little Peppina is gravity fed (as are some early
designs by Gaggia and Faema which have no internal heat, and are
"pour-over" lever machines), so these are the only lever machines I
know of easily adapted to precise temperature control.

I'm still working on measuring the pressure.
--
Jim

(***@ameritech.net)
d***@gmail.com
2015-05-07 14:15:25 UTC
Permalink
I've found one over the internet, and payed for it 15 Euros. It is in perfect condition. Al the parts were included. I guess the guy didn't know what he was selling, and i must admit that once you get the hand, the espresso is perfect. I wanted to ask, what do you mean by "coarser" grind. I don't have a grinder so i wasn't able to test the best recipe?
Mark Thorson
2015-05-08 06:12:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@gmail.com
I've found one over the internet, and payed
for it 15 Euros. It is in perfect condition.
Wow! Good for you! Lucky guy! Great price!
Post by d***@gmail.com
Al the parts were included. I guess the guy
didn't know what he was selling, and i must
admit that once you get the hand, the espresso
is perfect. I wanted to ask, what do you mean
by "coarser" grind. I don't have a grinder so
i wasn't able to test the best recipe?
Espresso is normally made with a coarser grind
(larger particle size) than other forms of
brewing. That's so the water flows well
through the puck (compressed coffee). It is
also important to have few small particles,
so expensive burr grinders are preferred
over cheap blade grinders. Blade grinders
produce lots of small particles that occupy
the spaces between the big particles and plug
the flow.

You are buying ground coffee, so it will have
been ground with a good grinder. No commercial
ground coffee is made with blade grinders.

Just be sure you are buying a coarse grind.
If you're getting good results, you probably
are already buying a good grind for espresso.

If you are buying from a local coffee roaster,
just make sure he knows you are making espresso.
He will give you a coarse grind and darker
roast. Also, some kinds of beans make good
espresso, and other types not so good. He
will recommend good types of beans for you.
Unless you start roasting beans yourself,
your best results will be from finding a
local roaster and buying what he recommends.
He'll probably recommend more than one, and
you'll have to try each one to decide which
is best for you.

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