Nuova Simonelli Ellimatic temp --PID?

[o***@gmail.com]

Hi
I recently acquired a lovely Elli. I'm having a hard time getting any
sort of consistent pulls from it. The first two or three shots are OK,
nice crema and taste, the pucks are well formed, then shot 4 and on
the pucks start to become a watery unpleasantness, and the crema is
almost non-existent.

It seems that the machine continues to get hotter and hotter for each
pull. I reckon this is natural within a certain range but the temp
seems to keep on going up up up

I've been grinding my way thru a pound of Black Cat trying to nail the
sweet spot for this baby and just can't seem to find it. It's probably
just me as it's a new machine to me --it just that my old Gaggia never
did me so wrong.

I'm starting to think that maybe I should do a PID mod.

So my question is first does anyone have any experience with this type
of inconsistancy on an Elli? Any suggestions?
And has anyone had any experience in installing a PID on an Elli?

Thanks all,

Pete

[Jack Denver]

Once upon a time I owned an Elli. I didn't notice any overyheat tendency -
it's a pretty normal HX setup that doesn't tend to spin out of control like
some levers.

The big problem I had w. the Elli was the stock baskets, which were very
small. I never got decent shots from it until I switched to full depth
baskets such as the "ridgeless" LM. Unfortunately these won't fit in the
stock PF which is equally shallow. You could cut the bottom out of the
stock PF or get another PF, but in the latter case you might have to file
the PF ears to fit and the handle might not point straight out.

Post by o***@gmail.com
Hi
I recently acquired a lovely Elli. I'm having a hard time getting any
sort of consistent pulls from it. The first two or three shots are OK,
nice crema and taste, the pucks are well formed, then shot 4 and on
the pucks start to become a watery unpleasantness, and the crema is
almost non-existent.
It seems that the machine continues to get hotter and hotter for each
pull. I reckon this is natural within a certain range but the temp
seems to keep on going up up up
I've been grinding my way thru a pound of Black Cat trying to nail the
sweet spot for this baby and just can't seem to find it. It's probably
just me as it's a new machine to me --it just that my old Gaggia never
did me so wrong.
I'm starting to think that maybe I should do a PID mod.
So my question is first does anyone have any experience with this type
of inconsistancy on an Elli? Any suggestions?
And has anyone had any experience in installing a PID on an Elli?
Thanks all,
Pete

[PeteT]

Post by Jack Denver
Once upon a time I owned an Elli. I didn't notice any overyheat tendency -
it's a pretty normal HX setup that doesn't tend to spin out of control like
some levers.
The big problem I had w. the Elli was the stock baskets, which were very
small. I never got decent shots from it until I switched to full depth
baskets such as the "ridgeless" LM. Unfortunately these won't fit in the
stock PF which is equally shallow. You could cut the bottom out of the
stock PF or get another PF, but in the latter case you might have to file
the PF ears to fit and the handle might not point straight out.

Post by o***@gmail.com
Hi
I recently acquired a lovely Elli. I'm having a hard time getting any
sort of consistent pulls from it. The first two or three shots are OK,
nice crema and taste, the pucks are well formed, then shot 4 and on
the pucks start to become a watery unpleasantness, and the crema is
almost non-existent.
It seems that the machine continues to get hotter and hotter for each
pull. I reckon this is natural within a certain range but the temp
seems to keep on going up up up

A few days in now and realize I'm just going to have to be patient and
spend some time finding the right grind, tamp, and extraction process.
No sense in rushing this

I've done some temp readings of the water exiting the group head using
a handheld thermometer --it's not hot enough right, now it's between
83 -86C.
Tonight I plan to take readings of the extracted coffee --I suspect
they'll be higher as the coffee will be held back in the portafilter
for a few secs before exiting.

Am I correct in assuming that the low temp accounts for lack of crema
and watery pucks?...I'm pretty sure I have my grind dialed in close to
ideal and I'm varying my tamps between 20-35lbs.

Anyone know how to adjust the temp pressure on the Elli?

Thanks for the help,

Pete

Post by Jack Denver

Post by o***@gmail.com
I've been grinding my way thru a pound of Black Cat trying to nail the
sweet spot for this baby and just can't seem to find it. It's probably
just me as it's a new machine to me --it just that my old Gaggia never
did me so wrong.
I'm starting to think that maybe I should do a PID mod.
So my question is first does anyone have any experience with this type
of inconsistancy on an Elli? Any suggestions?
And has anyone had any experience in installing a PID on an Elli?
Thanks all,
Pete

[Jack Denver]

IIRC there is a screw in the center of the pressure stat that you turn,
clockwise for hotter. The machine did tend to brew cool which is why I'm
surprised you reported overheat at first.

Post by PeteT

Post by PeteT
A few days in now and realize I'm just going to have to be patient and

spend some time finding the right grind, tamp, and extraction process.
No sense in rushing this
I've done some temp readings of the water exiting the group head using
a handheld thermometer --it's not hot enough right, now it's between
83 -86C.
Tonight I plan to take readings of the extracted coffee --I suspect
they'll be higher as the coffee will be held back in the portafilter
for a few secs before exiting.
Am I correct in assuming that the low temp accounts for lack of crema
and watery pucks?...I'm pretty sure I have my grind dialed in close to
ideal and I'm varying my tamps between 20-35lbs.
Anyone know how to adjust the temp pressure on the Elli?
Thanks for the help,
Pete

[Obvious]

Thanks for the tips.

I found an adjustment behind the back cover next to the boiler --a
sort of gnurled edged wheel. I gave this a couple of quarter clockwise
turns and the temp appeared to increase --I was doing frequent tests
so I think the adjustment had effect and not just the water heating
everything up.

My method has been to bring the machine to temp, pour a 20-25 shot of
water thru the pf, let machine recycle back to temp (20-30secs)
repeat, then repeat into shot glass, then quickly add coffee to pf,
tamp, and lock in and pull into emptied but stinking hot shot glass.
The resulting shot is just 90C

One thing I'm finding is despite a finer than normal grind (4 notched
past esp on Solis Maestro) and harder than normal tamp (~30lbs), the
shot pours very fast. Crema doesn't start to appear until about 12
secs into pull. Although I'm timing I'm more going by volume than time
for when pull stops --around 18sec.

The result is a thin layer of crema that dissipates and a not so great
tasting shot.

So although by adjusting pressure I've increased the temp, the
pressure could be too high. Time to visit NS shop me'thinks.

-Pete

[Jack Denver]

The [pump pressure has nothing to do with the pressurestat adjustment which
controls boiler pressure/temp only. Keep increasing grind fineness till you
choke the machine then back off a bit.

Measure temp using hot water dispensed into a foam cup held up to the shower
screen no coffee no PF. Poke the thermometer thru the side of the cup.

Post by Obvious
Thanks for the tips.
I found an adjustment behind the back cover next to the boiler --a
sort of gnurled edged wheel. I gave this a couple of quarter clockwise
turns and the temp appeared to increase --I was doing frequent tests
so I think the adjustment had effect and not just the water heating
everything up.
My method has been to bring the machine to temp, pour a 20-25 shot of
water thru the pf, let machine recycle back to temp (20-30secs)
repeat, then repeat into shot glass, then quickly add coffee to pf,
tamp, and lock in and pull into emptied but stinking hot shot glass.
The resulting shot is just 90C
One thing I'm finding is despite a finer than normal grind (4 notched
past esp on Solis Maestro) and harder than normal tamp (~30lbs), the
shot pours very fast. Crema doesn't start to appear until about 12
secs into pull. Although I'm timing I'm more going by volume than time
for when pull stops --around 18sec.
The result is a thin layer of crema that dissipates and a not so great
tasting shot.
So although by adjusting pressure I've increased the temp, the
pressure could be too high. Time to visit NS shop me'thinks.
-Pete